#25

The film does its work well. It’s tone reflects what is actually going on and people should take notice. I imagine even someone removed from such situations regardless of political leanings would be moved by the overall story. Everyday there are more and more people on the streets and many people are a few pay days away from real problems. That “I feel like I’m going under line” is devastating. Cinema isn’t all Avengers 4D and this is a timely reminder of the art and kudos to an old hand that made it who’d clearly done his research.

#26

are you trying to tell us that you voted for owen smith?

#27

Ken Loach is perhaps my favourite film-maker of all time and I’d rank I, Daniel Blake amongst his very best. As for its “terrifying lack of nuance” - maybe have a think about what a film presenting an exquisitely nuanced version of the benefits system would look like. It’d be about 7 hours long and it’d be fucking shit.

Loach is presenting a particular side of it. And that’s fine. It’s a film. I can’t think of a film that was released last year that had such an impact on audiences - either those who I sat with watching it or those more widely who’ve been talking about it. You talk about manipulation - all cinema is manipulation. Specifically with regards to Ken Loach, I don’t see what I, Daniel Blake does that Looks and Smiles as you mention doesn’t also doesn’t do.

Also The Angel’s Share is one of Loach’s best films? You serious?

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#28

Yeah, some fair points in here. I think what you outline here, though, Loach presenting a particular side of something and being manipulative is my precise problem. This is Loach the propogandist. What I like about Looks and Smiles, for example, isn’t about its subject matter but about its style (probs his most aesthetically pleasing film), it’s warmth, it’s representation of place and the shading of character. Like others have said, which it’s hard to argue with, Loach’s working-class hero in I,DB is not only nuance free but also a bit grating while you’re watching it. I’m not saying the film has to demonstrate all the nooks and crannies of the benefits system but the way it presents its characters is so sentimental and manipulative which is problematic given the political bent. The film just didn’t allow for any sort of shading or ambiguity in its position (which is why I find it particularly manipulative). Obviously people can disagree with this position and I understand why but I think there’s two obvious and reasonable reactions people are going to have to this film (and maybe a third for proper Tories).

Also, yeah, totally serious on The Angel’s Share - though granted it’s not a popular opinion amongst Loach’s followers but I guess I like the nods to Ealing infused with his naturalism and Robbie Ryan actually has the chance to do some vaguely interesting stuff. Not seen it for years though! Tbh, I don’t know many people who really like Loach and are really keen on any of the Laverty stuff post Ae Fond Kiss - another favourite of mine.

What else would you rank among his best, btw?

#29

Yeah I don’t think it is but I understand why you would. It’s fair enough! Daniel Blake himself is a composite after all but I think it’s a bloody effective one to tell a story that needs to be told.

His work with Laverty can be a bit hit and miss. Jimmy’s Hall was a right disappointment, mainly because there was so much to cram in in the story and I don’t think the balance was there. That said I’m a big fan of Looking For Eric - just a really warm, warm film so long as you suspend a bit of disbelief with regards to the last 20 minutes or so.

Now you’re asking re: Loach’s best work but to attempt one…

Kes
Riff Raff
Looks and Smiles (props to you for picking this out too - it’s amazing)
Land and Freedom
(One of Raining Stones/My Name Is Joe/Sweet Sixteen - can’t choose).

I, Daniel Blake’s definitely in that bracket for me. Another one I want to lob in is The Navigators but I haven’t watched it since it was first on telly and might not have aged well.

#30

Even though it’s a little flawed I liked this film a lot. I don’t really now what “nuances” some people in this thread were expecting, or how they would have changed things. Yes, I Daniel Blake is a little hyperbolic. But it has to be, to make it’s point. It would have been great if they made a ten episode Wire-esque granular account of the ins and outs of Britain, but it’s not that sort of thing.

I think you would have to be fucking crackers to describe it as pointless because it might not change people’s minds. Are Walking With Dinosaurs and An Inconvenient Truth wastes of time because they won’t convince idiots that Dinosaurs and Global Warming are real things?

#31

Land and Freedom & Bread and Roses are his best IMO though not seen either for years.

#32

My friend urged me - begged me, even - to avoid seeing this at all costs, but wouldn’t explain why.

I mean, I spent the best (worst) part of nearly two years signing on, and it nearly destroyed me, and I still have a murderous hatred of IDS and co. It might be that. But I wish he’d explain why he thinks it’d be a bad idea for me to watch this.

#33

He’s talking shite

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#34

He’s not the shite-talking type.

#35

Always interested to see Grammar school and Oxbridge educated Loach’s take on the working class tbh :wink:

#36

I don’t know what to tell you then, obviously watch it

#37

Maybe he thinks it’ll be too upsetting for you?

I’ve spent a fair amount of time on JS myself, and some of the things in the film - that fucking two minutes of looped Bach they have on the phone, the language that’s used, the pointless, dehumanising courses they send you on - really hit home hard. I never had that much of a problem with JS because I was a computer literate, well-spoken middle class lad living at home so a) they treated me as semi-human and b) I could navigate their obfuscation pretty easily, but being reminded about it all made me really angry.

I remembered all the middle-aged people I met in there who had been made redundant from some career they’d had for most of their life, turned loose into a world that completely bewildered them, being treated like animals for the crime of being unemployed and struggling a bit to use a computer. I remembered all the overheard conversations with young women trying to nurse a baby at the same time as being told that no, in order to get child support you first need to fill out a separate form online and then attend a separate interview, first we need to sort out your jobseeker obligations. People being “reskilled” to become call centre operatives, as if that’s a fucking useful investment of their and society’s time.

It made me angry to be taken back to that time, but this is the reality of how we’re treating the poor in this enlightened country of ours, the reality that lies behind those poisonous Daily Mail headlines, and we all need to be reminded of it. This is one of about three films I’ve seen at the cinema that the audience applauded at the end, btw.

7 Likes
#38

Sounds like you enjoy Looking for Eric as the same reasons I love Angel’s Share. Never seen Land and Freedom so might try and get round to that in the next few weeks.

#39

Thanks for the thoughtful answer.

I’d forgotten all about that on-hold music. Arrrrgh.

#40

I was going to post something similar to what you’ve mentioned about your experience on JSA.

Echoing what lots of others have said really, those scenes were the most infuriating for me. Can remember being told to apply for a job at a cafe in Sevenoaks or somewhere like that (despite living in Southend and not being able to drive and the cost of commuting there would be more than the pay and would involve like 3 trains) and also being sanctioned for not looking hard enough despite having an interview, a second interview and a trial shift that week… All this whilst being depressed and in bed and absolutely dreading my appointment every week.

Basically it’s a really important film and I didn’t really care that the acting wasnt absolutely sensational.

#41

Don’t think/anyone said the acting is the problem

#42

Also, for me there was always a way out. I had a roof over my head, warmth and food as I lived at home with my parents. Thought it was really good at portraying the utter helplessness that lots of people are experiencing. There is nothing they can do to escape it.

#43

Few people mentioning whether critiquing the film on the basis of the acting is necessary etc upthread.

#44

I’d argue that given the director, and the subject matter, the acting being sensational could have had a derogatory effect on its impact and authenticity, idk.