But is that based on gut/charisma or just policy?
The former.
Donât find any of them very inspiring.
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1219296542051520512?s=19
Getting unnecessarily annoyed at this. 7 endorsements for Starmer, 3 (!) for Phillips, 2 for Nandy and 1 each for RLB and Thornberry.
How are they even pretending thatâs representative? I know itâs not news to this forum that the Guardian is a shitrag for people who recycleâŚbut this feels like another new low
Probably is representative of the submissions from their readers
Donât forget that the Guardian has long been a paper for the soft left through to Lib Dems - itâs never been the kind of place that enthuses Long-Bailey supporters.
Right, this tiny excerpt from Raynerâs speech:
âI also think political education is crucially overdue in this country and that our current curriculum teaches kids about colonialism and the empire and teaches them nothing about our democracy here today and thatâs what we need to be doing
That is not a suggestion that weâre teaching the history of empire and colonialism too much. I donât think she even implies it.
The criteria under discussion is not value but time; I donât see where she could be questioning whether we should study these issues, but rather why we study them in the past but not also in the present. She calls for more current political education, she doesnât call for less political history. The point is that if we see the value in studying one then we can then make the argument for studying the other - if we study empire and colonialism we should also study migrant rights and UK trade relationships.
Good to see weâre still assuming the absolute worst about everyone based on incredibly limited statements rather than their consistent behaviour across years of commitment and service to the party. You love to see it.
This isnât about you, this is about the clip thatâs been circulated and mischaracterises a good faith candidate in the leadership election. Iâve not referred to you anywhere.
Speaking without reference to my own preference, Rayner would have absolutely walked this if sheâd have stood for leader.
I think we can safely say that Phillips is having the worst campaign by some distance. No chance sheâs making it onto the final ballot. Doesnât look like Thornberry will either, which is a shame because I think sheâs a very viable candidate.
Starmer, Nandy and RLB all disappoint me in different ways. I donât think any of them suggest a clear path to Tory beating. Still very undecided. The more I see of Starmer, the more I see Ed Miliband. At least RLB and Nandy come across as assured in what they believe.
I think its a shame she hasnât, because I canât see leadership qualities or much that inspires me in any of the actual candidates. Still hoping that RLB can convince me sheâs more than a good cabinet member and that she is able to understand what needs to change (that 10/10 on Corbyn has stuck with me as an indicator she wants to continue in exactly the same way - fairly or unfairly - and sheâs not yet dispelled that)
Iâm pleased some of the board are seeing something Iâm not, but I still need convincing if sheâs to get my first preference.
The clip is doing the rounds on social media. You posted it here but it is outthere and it is what Iâm trying to respond to.
I used and emphasised the words âtoo muchâ because theyâre the essence of what the clip is edited to imply but doesnât actually contain any evidence of - that Rayner wants less or no teaching on colonialism or empire.
I am trying to engage in the best way I know how with a clip that seems designed to mis-characterize the candidate. Iâm really sorry that you were the person who posted it so weâve ended up interacting again. I really donât know what else to do but when an obvious attack on RLB gets posted on the boards people call it out, when the same happens to Rayner no one says a word.
The âsoft-leftâ (I hate this phrase) arenât to be trusted and therefore theyâre fair game seems to be the message. EDIT: I mean the message from social media, not from any person in particular.
Did anyone watch the hustings video on youtube? I skimmed it a bit last night
Iâll be honest it just all comes across as quite flat and lacking passion. I know weâre in a tough spot, but I am struggling to feel weâve got an inspiring group of candidates to pick from. The bench is limited and thatâs been Labourâs issue for a long time, so one of the things we need to be fixing in the coming years is bringing through new candidates and backing them.
Maybe the strategy should be to start the organisational groundwork for the next couple of years while focussing on local elections, mayoral elections, and boosting the organisational capacity so that weâre in a stronger place for the next GE, and that doesnât necessarily need you to have a leader who is primarily focused on winning the next election.
I think Iâm going to vote for RLB because most of the people I respect and trust are recommending her. But I canât say that Iâve seen any performance from her that has truly inspired me or made me think sheâll be a great leader - but Iâm happy to accept thatâs on me, and I need to take the time to watch more of her when I can.
I was more probably more amenable to Starmer than most earlier on, but Iâm not convinced by him now, if he were a stronger performer that might make up for his shortcomings, but now I donât even think he has that.
All my takes are a terrible mishmash of gut feeling, trying to reason out what the electorate might think of them, unreasonable prejudices and trying to parse what little policy theyâve come out with, so is probably way off base.
I just want the memes back.
Iâm sorry but I really canât tell if you want a response to this, so Iâll try and keep it brief.
I honestly tried not to direct my response to the clip at you in particular. I repeated those two words by accident - I swear Iâm not that petty and I hope I donât come off as such. If I even respond to a line of topic youâre involved in I am only doing so because I think thereâs a perspective that someone else isnât already offering, otherwise Iâll steer clear. Iâm usually just trying to broaden debate.
The 2nd paragraph is absolutely not about anyone in particular but is about a broader sense in the party that the soft-left are unreliable and that itâs necessary to over interpret what they say at all times in case theyâre about to go all âlegitimate concernsâ. âthe leftâ and the âsoft leftâ (I hate these terms so much) are supposed to be broadly in alliance but it feels very far from that. The twitter thread linked to in the main politics thread is an excellent example of this:
I donât know how weâre supposed to be forming any sort of a united party when the âsoft leftâ has to keep convincing âthe leftâ (who could do with an identifying term that doesnât get everyone elseâs backs up) that itâs candidates are trustworthy and donât want to forcefully suppress Scotland, work with UKIP, end the teaching of colonial history, or bring back Blair. Itâs exhausting. I am as exhausted as anyone, but whilst no one else is talking about it Iâm probably going to keep doing so.
One down. Maybe. Iâm gonna miss her STEVE HOLT! campaign style if so.
Sake, now we all need a new first preference candidate.
It would make sense if she were to do so. Her campaignâs not even achieved the modest target of making the contest âa bit more interestingâ. Thereâs no chance of her winning and she has shown no evidence that she is ready to lead. At all.
Wonder if it might finally give her pause for thought about how limiting her own particular way of doing politics actually is.
Mate, just read AWâs posts. Sheâs said it multiple times now, respect her request (or message her to take this forward, itâs diverting the thread)
She seemed to go in thinking her strong personality would win folk over but forgot to say anything interesting. But then King Stormer hasnât got the personality and hasnât said anything of note either and is in the lead so
Itâs been an odd contest so far. I canât tell if the lack of energy is just a hangover from the defeat or if the candidates are actually as uninspiring as they seem right now.