Maybe. I certainly feel that way a lot of the time

Then I am reminded of situations where the ends justify the means. In the end, is it possible you need a mixture of principles and utterly ruthless pragmatism?

Yes, but it seems like the Labour Party veers between principled yet vulnerable to being fucked over by enemies both inside and outside the party (Corbyn, Michael Foot) and principle-free Overton window bullshit like Blair and to a lesser extent, Kinnock.

I’m not sure there is a middle ground like you describe. Maybe ruthless pragmatism is too close to ‘do whatever it takes’ to be compatible with being principled?

I guess Corbyn could have been more ruthless with the right once he got power, but the poor guy was dealing with a firehose of shit from all sides on a daily basis.

I was being more general than specifically talking about e.g. Corbyn

He isn’t a pragmatic politician. And some people love him for that

Guess he thought to play to his perceived strengths

I do think the pragmatic stuff is really about playing the Westminster game, which fucking sucks in itself

3 Likes

things that are needed:

a new thread for this discussion
a new leader for the labour party

1 Like
2 Likes

added to the thread with sound clips

When i was about 14 i went to see them in peterborough on valentines day. I did not have a date (great gig though)

1 Like

I think he shouldve gone full ‘im delighted that the report acknowledges the progress we made in speeding up the complaints process and look forward to the party continuing this work by implententing the reports excellent conclusions’ etc. Cant be criticised for it, cause doing so would amplify the fact that the report isnt actually that bad

2 Likes

As if.

I still don’t fully understand why, but there’s nothing Corbyn could ever say that would satisfy the unending queue of people clearly absolutely gagging to stick the boot in.

2 Likes

Yeah fair point - that was assuming the melts wouldn’t just lie which was a bit silly.

I miss last September:

A new Alexei Sayle is desperately needed in this country or just Alexei Sayle just before the BBC news every night of the week for balance.

4 Likes

Really?
They need us to understand that we haven’t just lost, but that we should feel intense shame for ever having tried in the first place and that we should never ever dare trying to influence mainstream politics ever again.

14 Likes

Fair. Maybe sub in “haven’t processed the scale of” for “don’t fully understand why”. I guess it depends on who is meant by ‘they’.

I definitely don’t get the outright ‘I just don’t like him’ thing.

Beyond that, 2014 made it clear that there’s an establishment class that’ll rally around it’s interests. And I kind of came to terms with the ‘maybe, but not yet’ inertia that is attached to the perceived default status of the UK as is (or more accurately, Britain). And I get that there’d be a similar establishment reason when faced with someone like Corbyn gaining traction. No surprise at all that the media collectively shat itself when faced with the prospect of him bypassing them. But I can’t quite grasp the number of ‘normal’ people who seem absolutely resistant to the prospect of, y’know, trying something different to that which has fucked us over for the best part of half a century. I mean, look at the fucking state of things, arising from decades of Tory policy. And yet people still think Yeah, I’ll have some more of that, please, rather than this bad and dangerous Corbyn guy.

2 Likes

I think that overlooks the stark divide in voting patterns.

Home-owning retirees who had free university tuition and then minimal tax rises when things like the latter were kicked away, have done very well out of the status quo.

They have indeed. And I don’t overlook it at all. But I’m aghast at their collective lack of empathy. And taken aback by the apparent (judging by turnout) indifference of people being shat on. And consistently dismayed by people voting against their best interests.

1 Like

Anyone know if this is true?


This doesn’t seem very clever from the law talking guy.
3 Likes

Quite enjoying jezza just carrying on on twitter like nothings happening and congratulating city on their women’s fa cup win

12 Likes

Fuck it man, let the guy watch the footie and grow his marrows.

1 Like