#3789

Everybody has a right to a homeland, that includes Israelis and Palestinians equally

4 Likes
#3790

Yes. I find myself knee deep in hand wringing going further than that base level concept but yes: thatā€™s a standard that most agree with

#3791

Right, Iā€™ll just post it but have taken out any personal or identifying information.

"Iā€™m glad that youā€™re staunchly left-wing. It seems to me to be the only possible ethical, rational and emotional response to growing inequalities between the rich and poor, and a potentially dying planet.

Soā€¦to answer your question. Jews have a proud history in the Labour movement, here and worldwide. I donā€™t believe for a moment that the whole Labour party is antisemitic. One of the reasons Labour voters gave for not voting for them during this last election was that they disliked the antisemitic culture of the party.

Yet the antisemitism only crept in during the Corbyn era on the back of the far-left anti-Israel lobby which singles out Israel as the ultimate contemporary manifestation of colonialism and now, in recent weeks, as somehow exemplifying ā€˜white privilegeā€™.

I donā€™t have any problem with criticism of Israelā€™s leadership or policies or history - any more than I donā€™t have any problem with criticism of any country: America, China etc. But the far-left call for the destruction of the state of Israel and presumably its 6 million Jewish inhabitants seems to me to be violently antisemitic - what other country in the world does anyone ever say has no right to even exist? The US, Australia, Canada etc etc are all the products of colonialism and also of genocide, but no one calls for their destruction ā€˜from the river to the seaā€™. Why just Israel, which has many people working for peace and reconciliation, and no other country - many of which have appalling records of human violations. This seems to be a kind of back-door racism of an extreme type - justified or posing as a (legitimate) defence of Palestinian interests.

In other words, many, not all, in Labour have a blind spot in their anti-racism. They can say horrifying things about Jews, the Holocaust etc - share complete stereotypes about Jews being mean, rich etc etc - that would never (and rightly so) be said with regard to say Muslims or people of colour.

But Iā€™m really delighted about Sir Kier Starmer. I voted Green last time because of the anti-Semitism in the party, but he (with his Jewish wife and kids and determination to keep this poison out of the movement) seems like someone I can really get behind. So hopefully, things will improve."

1 Like
#3792

I canā€™t believe how the right has pivoted the conversation away from russian bots literally running our election discourse into but is Corbynā€™s circle for a 2 state solution AGAIN

#3793

No of course and Iā€™m not going to question any Jewish personā€™s views on this.

I suppose a frustration I have around Labour anti-Semitism is the presentation of there being one Jewish opinion on it - my Twitter timeline has got jewdas and Jewish Voice for Labour frequently taking literally the opposite stance on whatever the current story is than whoever on the Board of Deputies is being quoted in the corresponding BBC story.

4 Likes
#3794

Yeah, I completely agree.
Again, I wasnā€™t really trying to start a debate or anything, was just sounding out a really interesting email from someone whoā€™s opinion I value highly (not that I think other peopleā€™s opinions arenā€™t as important- jeez I canā€™t articulate what I mean haha).
Just trying to listen and learn, cause yeah, these experiences and feelings arenā€™t gonna be that of my own

1 Like
#3795

Please donā€™t conflate being mentally ill with being a genocidal antisemite.

1 Like
#3796

I donā€™t personally believe that someone can genuinely believe in the removal of six million people without having a mind that is intensely troubled

#3797

I donā€™t believe people with mental health issues such as may require a section need the additional stigma of association with that kind of thing

#3798

I think youā€™re reaching like hell

1 Like
#3799

And I donā€™t see people with mental health issues as one homogenous group, either

1 Like
#3800

Bit of a weird read of his comment tbh

#3801

I just donā€™t think bandying around ā€œneeds sectioningā€ is a good thing.

11 Likes
#3802

I think this is a perception thing. The antisemitism was (unforgiveably) always there, but suddenly it was being reported more. It is not also really correct to lump Corbyn, or a lot of others, in with the ā€œfar-leftā€, and certainly not the sort of extremist position youā€™ve mentioned.

It seems to me like most of the energy and outrage which was focused on opposing apartheid in South Africa in the 80s/90s just got transferred to Israel. You then have a bunch of really harmful stereotypes regarding Jewish people, most of which have been embedded in our culture for absolutely ages, that keep coming up again and again. I hear this sort of stuff all the time, it is a problem in society, not just the Labour party (Iā€™m sure this has been said plenty of times).

4 Likes
#3803

Iā€™m sure thatā€™s true, but the reporting of it is sort of key for me and Iā€™m sure others. Do I agree with why it was most likely reported on more? No. But do I think it was important it was? Yeah, absolutely.
But yeah I do agree with your post, but same with Israel/Palestine, I donā€™t know enough about apartheid (or many other issues for that matter!) to say anything about it really.
Think the point Iā€™m failing to get across is that I have the utmost sympathy with what Jewish people think, and that my perception of it is largely irrelevant because if a group of people feel attacked in such a way then I have to just listen and learn.

And fwiw it wasnā€™t actually me that mentioned any extremist positions, I was quoting someone else with far more knowledge than me.

But yeah, again, donā€™t feel like I have the knowledge or experience to really engage in debate about this if that makes sense??

3 Likes
#3804

Personally donā€™t believe any country in the world has the right to, or should, exist.

4 Likes
#3805

Yeah, I feel like this all the time! Also, the pace of these threads is sometimes so fast that by the time I read something there have already been a bunch more replies and the topic has moved on to something else.

I think the key thing regarding the recent reporting of AS in the mainstream media is that what we need is accuracy, and I donā€™t think we have seen anything close to that. As such, I donā€™t think we are really that much closer to solving any of these problems.

2 Likes
#3806

Haha, yeah exactly this :smiley: often feel like Iā€™ve managed to blag my way into a book club having only read half of the first chapter and everyone else has finished it :slight_smile:

1 Like
#3808

Just to say me and ravens had a really decent chat about this on DM and all is good. Imma watch my phraseology, and so we remain the hottest power couple on DiS

10 Likes
#3809

Thanks again for reaching out and putting the fires out xx

2 Likes