#5565

whether you hold corbyn responsible or the left in general, there’s definitely more that could have been done in terms of changing the make-up of the PLP and making changes to the party machinery quicker and deeper. probably should have too.

1 Like
#5566

Difficult to answer that second one. He was fucking useless in many ways but ultimately has left Labour a roadmap of how to achieve electoral success from the left, which is a more useful and instructive a legacy than anything his 2 predecessors have bequeathed (if you ignore the bit about Gordon Brown saving the country and perhaps the world from total economic collapse of course). Even the 2019 drubbing has given us something more useful than Miliband’s leadership.

4 Likes
#5567

Proof that on his own terms Corbyn was ineffective

#5568

^this is why I voted ineffective. Mandatory reselection should have been on the cards. Instead, we’ve got Neil fucking Coyle and Wes fuckin Streeting as MPs.

Wes

Fuck

ing

Street

ing

#5569

It’s also quite easy to mark someone as ineffective if the task they were given to start with was monstrously difficult.

8 Likes
#5570

You’ve got the trade unions to thank for non-adoption of mandatory reselection above all else, I think

1 Like
#5571

I’d give Starmer a similar concession tbh (albeit for different reasons). I can’t escape my belief that at present, and with seemingly no end point, Labour is essentially ungovernable.

3 Likes
#5572

Probably true, but I can’t help but look at a fair proportion of what both Starmer and Corbyn have done at various times and question whether they’re inept or deliberately stoking the flames :fire:

#5573

dunno about proof mate I’m just some chump on the internet

#5574

The thing is, directly after the leadership election Starmer actually had a decent platform to build a broad but unified party. He had the backing of the centre/right, a big mandate and a leadership campaign that promised to build off the 2019 manifesto. If he had worked off his leadership campaign as a foundation he could have been a slightly boring, deeply uninspiring but unifying force in the party.

Then he became leader

6 Likes
#5575

He had a broad platform of membership support, but he was only able to get into that position due to the people who backed him within the PLP, the party machinery and his (undisclosed until after the ballot) financial backers, and none of them would settle for anything less than a purge and junking the 2017 and 2019 manifestos and the 10 pledges on which he stood.

He knew who he was getting into bed with, and he knew that they’d undermine him if he didn’t follow their priorities.

2 Likes
#5576

reckon there’s still some good people in the Labour party

#5577

:wave:

#5578

yeah I haven’t left yet either

2 Likes
#5579

pinko.

1 Like
#5580

The one guy I ever received e-mails from from the local party has sent an angry e-mail saying he’s quitting :frowning: Seemed like a good bloke

#5581

i’d take my chances with PR, I don’t think you would have had the extremes of austerity and approaching no deal brexit with a beige coalition, and would have the additional benefits people would feel their votes mattered compared to at the moment in safe seats, the undecided voter would have less sway, people could vote for parties based around issues important to them without worrying about wasting their vote, just feel people would be a lot more engaged. would be great for being able to not vote stamer/biden without fearing letting borris/trump in. I doubt there will be another Corbyn moment so thing PR is a more realistic route

#5582

Wouldn’t UKIP and brexit ended up with a load of seats under PR

1 Like
#5583

Who can say. It’s probable that there’d be a big difference in vote share for each party under PR.

#5584

probably as PR benefits smaller parties, as it stood they had a lot of leverage by threatening the split the vote that managed to pull the entire conservative party over to them. Think they actually might have been less powerful if they had more seats that representsd their level of support because it would be an entirely different system where people could vote for parties that best represented their wishes rather than a binary less of two evils system. Think PR settles around consensus, and whatever the consensus was around brexit it wasn’t the hardest of brexits we are heading towards

3 Likes