#7999

Ironically this cropped up for me just now and it is also why I feel wary of even the “good, defeating-the-nazis” style patriotism

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#8000

Quite.

That little “Well said, Andy.” bit at the end from the presenter was telling. If you’re wasting time in interviews with these total wankers and being given crumbs of patronising praise like that for being a good little boy, you’re not only on the wrong side of the argument, you’re in the pockets of your opponents. They’re toying with you. Why give them the thin veneer of legitimacy by even speaking to them?

2 Likes
#8001

My exact thoughts.

#8002

Yeah, quite amazing that they classified anything as a war crime at all based on the behaviour of the US (who I’m using as the example here mainly through my own sheer lack of further knowledge of other Allied partners’ actions) given that they were also interning Japanese-American citizens in concentration camps from 1942 to 1946, while still acting the big saviour. History is often the study of hypocrisy.

1 Like
#8003

If we didn’t have statues of the good guys we’d get awfully confused about who was right wouldn’t we

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#8004

I can’t work out if this is a good line of attack on the Tories, feels like it to me but am happy to be told it isn’t. Mainly nice to see any line of attack at the moment, tbh

UK lost £16bn in tax revenues over nine years under Conservatives, says Labour | Labour | The Guardian

#8005

Less tax under the tories? CON 55% (+12)

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#8006

Are you saying this isn’t a catchy pitch for the doorstep? Because if you are then I have to tell you it resonated pretty blooming strongly over the Reeves breakfast table!

The figure was calculated by Labour because of a gap of £46bn between UK GDP in 2019 and what UK GDP would have been in 2019, if the UK had grown at the same rate as the OECD between 2010 and 2019. Applying the tax take proportion of 33.4%, it suggests that £15.4bn in tax revenue had been missed by 2019 because the UK grew at a slower rate to the OECD, or £16.74bn taking inflation into account.

#8007

I suppose “The Tories lost £16bn in tax” just feels right to me, I don’t need to know the working. Depends if it feels right to anyone else.

#8008

“The Tories wasted £16bn of your tax” might possibly get a moment of someone’s attention, but… what @the_ravens said.

#8009

Ah so we don’t need to tax businesses more we need to allow them to make more money to get the increased taxation income

#8010

they didn’t even waste it, they never had it

#8011

Yeah exactly. I was suggesting that if they could say that then it might have a tiny bit of resonance. But they can’t use that data to say even that.

But that’s not even the worrying thing is it? The worrying thing is that they think this is a line of attack, and it clearly isn’t.

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#8012

What do people think of Burnham generally? Is he a good lad or a bit of a shithouse?

He’s just be re-elected to his position as Mayor by an absolute landslide (even in the borough he performed poorest in he more than doubled the Tory vote) and he not willing to upset a few flag pervs?

For those in Greater Manchester particularly, how’s he thought of? I’ve always got the impression he’s quite popular, and his politics on paper seem sound enough, but for some reason I’ve still got him down as a bit of a wetwipe.

#8013

I don’t think people are as averse to paying more tax as is generally assumed.

2 Likes
#8014

It would really be incredibly weird to suggest that that’s the message they’re trying to get across there. What they’re trying to do is find a narrative to describe weak economic growth that people can relate to.

And regardless of how people feel about paying more tax, “vote for us and we’ll tax you more” is not an election-winning slogan, here, anywhere, any time. Even if you mean it the better slogan is “vote for us and we’ll spend more on your services”.

#8015

Well clearly they’re going for a “decade of Tory misspending” narrative, I’m not suggesting they’re not.

I don’t understand tax even the tiniest little bit, so it’s probably best I stop talking about it.

#8016

It feels like it’s a narrative that’s been workshopped after someone spent an evening drinking with the tax payers alliance.

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#8017

He’s well regarded generally in Manchester. He’s done a fair amount to tackle homelessness in a humane fashion as well as implemented a fairly ambitious transport policy (so now there’s loads of people whining about the roadworks to put in ‘pointless’ cycle lanes, but w/e). I think he owes his popularity to his image of standing up to Westminster at the height of the pandemic, which was exactly the sort of stunt that Starmie has conspicuously failed to pull off.

He’s exceeded my expectations when he first came up here. I think it’d be a disaster if he tried to take charge of the party itself, it’s above his pay grade. Otoh I can’t name anyone who’d have a better time of it.

2 Likes
#8018

Thus far he’s given the impression of doing do, but (partly due to a lot of that burden falling on councils) not that much has actually gone in. He’s said this term is gonna be the one where he “really delivers”, so :crossed_fingers:

Councils just need to learn to ignore car gammons and “I’m alright Jack!” vehicular cyclists, really.

He’s trying to get bus reform through, and hopefully will manage to do so!

5 Likes