#81

Stewart Lee

#82

While I dislike Sarah Vine, the Daily Mail, and everything associated therewith, she has a point here (and also ‘alleged comedian’ is a fucking ace turn of phrase) - being famous and left-wing doesn’t get you a pass. CW: gross sex stuff and misogyny

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#83

I love that there’s a Ship radar 24 (Vessel Finder to be precise), will while a few hours away at work on that!

#84

Ooer tho

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#85

¯_(ツ)_/¯

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#86

Yeah, but also, ehhhh, but also, meeeehhhh, y’know? Sarah Vine is basically evil, but does it do anyone good to dehumanise evil? (Also P.S I have to declare a bias because I’m not sure I think ol’ Stewie is particularly funny, though I do appreciate his craft)

#87

what’s he done

#88

He’s not gendered the insult though, I’m struggling to see how this can be construed as being misogynistic.

Fwiw I don’t care about Stuart Lee either, so I’m not a rabid fanboy.

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#89

not much, just doing a Q&A with Barry Hogan at an ATP film screening

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#90

Because it was clearly aimed at her, given that she’s Michael Gove’s wife?

Yeah maybe it’s not misogynistic actually, maybe it’s just a bit shitty, good point

I’m probably not the person to pronounce on what is and isn’t misogyny, so I’m going to take your point and respectfully leave it there if that’s chill with you - not trying to swerve a debate or anything, I think you’re probably right but like I say, I don’t feel like I’m knowledgeable or well-enough equipped to go further

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#91

I don’t have an issue with that joke because it’s making fun of her job, which isn’t an immutable aspect of her character such as her gender.

Regards your other points, completely agree, I am definitely don’t want to be the man making declarations as to what is/isn’t misogynistic. However in this case I thought the joke was clearly structured in a way that avoided anything about gender, and I was wondering if I had missed anything.

I really wasn’t trying to have beef with you and I wasn’t intending to come across as agressive, apologies if I came across too strong. I actually hate arguing on the internet so much and try to avoid it as a rule!

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#92

Same, just coming at it from the other angle! No beefs here, I think you’ve given me perspective that my initial reading lacked.

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#93

Did he curate an ATP or something? I can’t remember where, but I vaguely recall reading him thanking the ATP organisers for a weekend he’d always wanted to see put together. Actually my memory is so vague on this that now I’ve typed it out, I’m not sure it was even him.

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#94

yeah he curated the last one where the whole thing unravelled. vaguely remember his response was kind of taking it in his stride, he wasn’t aware of the problems the festival had, but after that weekend he would have been well aware of the shambles. so am surprised he is taking part in this Hogan rehabilitation

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#95

No I agree with you, it’s not the worst thing anyone’s ever said but it’s the kind of comment that I find upsetting. maybe because I’ve had similar comments aimed at me/people I’ve dated before.

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#96

I got that read off it, and I don’t think a similar thing would have been said by a woman about a man, but I also get Rodion’s point about it not being a joke actually based on her gender. I think it’s a shitty thing to say regardless of whether it’s definably misogynistic or not, but I think there’s relatively general agreement on that in here.

#97

And it’s like the fatphobic trump jokes, like, don’t make me have to expend energy that is even slightly on the side of that guy. I don’t want to come to Sarah Vine’s defence ffs! Ha

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#98

I stand by the fact that ‘alleged comedian’ is a great skewer

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#99

I think it’s (fairly low-level) misogynistic because it’s quite objectifying. Literally, talking about a woman as a passive object that a man inserts his penis into, but even if he’d said “slept with” it’s still likening a woman to an object. It doesn’t directly mention her gender, but it is still gendered because it was said in a social context in which women are frequently objectified and men are not. I’m imagining she found the comment fairly creepy and gross.

I have no issue with mail journalists being the target of jokes, but only in ways that are only offensive to mail journalists and other bad people, not all women.

Personally I don’t find it offensive enough that I would write him off as a hardcore misogynist based on that alone, only if it were part of a pattern (I’m not familiar with his work so have no idea if it is). If someone I know said I’d probably guilty-laugh in the moment but feel a bit uncomfortable and be wary of any other signs that they might have issues with women.

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#100

You said this so much better than I ever could!

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