Martin McGuinness has died


Surprised there’s no thread already actually.

Good old new DiS is telling me this topic is similar to the Marvel films thread


I think the cross-community plaudits we’re hearing today are a testament to how much he put into working for peace in the latter part of his career. An extremely complicated figure for sure, but hard to underestimate his legacy in helping bring about peace in the North.


very much this. this image would have been absolutely unthinkable more than a decade ago.

mad that he seemed fine less than a year ago when he was at Downing Street post-Brexit but suddenly seemed so frail in January.


Monster tight-rope act required by all the politicos on talking heads duty this morning. Thought Peter Hain handled it well, and was surprised at how far Blair was prepared to go too. Fair enough that Michael McConville wanted to be a bit more equivocal.


Norman Tebbitt was somewhat less balanced…


would have been absolutely unthinkable almost exactly a decade ago. Right up to the moment it was taken basically.


I’m not happy and I’m not sad.


Christ. Pretty much the only subject I’m prepared to cut that old cunt the slightest slack on. But only a bit. He could always just keep his trap shut. Hardly like he’s never destroyed anyone’s life himself.


Of course his terrorist past is a big part of his story. But so is the choice he made to leave it behind, which led to his enormous contribution to one of the most significant changes of our lifetime; one he feared was being taken for granted amid all the other changes going on.


I spent five days in Belfast last month and went on various tours around the city and along the ‘peace wall’. My impression was that nothing is going to change for a very long time - basically not until they have mixed schools anyway.

I was aware of the murals, but not how many there are - they are everywhere. In the housing estates on either side of the wall pretty much every house at the end of the row has something painted on it, and it’s exactly the same message on both sides just reversed: ‘our guys are martyrs, the other guys are murdering bastards’. If you’re a kid growing up in that environment it seems to me you get given a very black and white view of things. They still lock the gates along the wall every evening, even now, to stop late night attacks. In the city centre it’s very different and and everyone seems to mix with no problem, but when they go home it’s like a switch gets flicked.

I was there for work to meet with City Council and they are pretty terrified of the uncertainty around Brexit. Although a hard border between the north and the south is unlikely it is possible, and my understanding is that it’s an open secret that both sides are recruiting young paramilitaries at the moment ‘just in case’.

Basically, for the all the progress made it seems to me that the ongoing peace process needs to be measured in generations rather than years. Whether McGuinness’s death is taken as a moment of reflection or a disruption in a fragile process that sees a ramping up of tension remains to be seen.


its hard to imagine brexit being anything other than ugly for NI, i think thats prob taken its toll on his health as i think @Icarus-Smicarus was suggesting


well, depending on where you live. where i live in South Belfast is pretty mixed without any gates and divides.

quite a few of the old violent murals have been replaced by new peaceful ones, which is quite nice, while a more general movement for street art has sort of sprung up in recent years having spawned from it.

this one is pretty bad though


Show your working.


Look, you might live there, but CG visited for a few days recently so I think he’s a bit more qualified than you to talk about life in Belfast.


well, they were keeping the nature of his illness private but it was supposedly a rare heart condition he was diagnosed with a couple of months ago. not sure if that’s been made official now or not. it’s probably overstating it relate his health decline to Brexit tbh, but it’s certainly a very ugly thing for us. hard to believe 44% of people here actually voted for it.


Mate he went on a coach tour down the Shankill Road - what the fuck have you done??


i like to only read the first two lines of this one


south belfast? fancy pants


Also good because of the v hanging over the ‘rigin’ that follows.


*south belfast metropolitan elite