If you touch my crowing glory I’ll destroy you
just kidding, do what you want, see if I care 
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Agreed, you can’t improve on perfection
Didn’t we all agree that it’s shit?
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full disclosure: i like machina I quite a lot
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This fucking thread. I can’t believe it somehow mutated into a 3 way real time Machina reappraisal. It’s almost art.
Also I used to think I was immune to all this hot takery but every now and again I think about ‘Alice in Creed’ and have to suppress the urge to tear off my shirt and start flailing wildly at innocent bystanders. Well played you bastards.
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*Creed in chains
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Fever for the flava by hot action cop is the song Corgan wishes he could write
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i definitely don’t need two discs worth of it tbh
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that fucking video man, jesus
was terrified you had gone an watched ‘Try, Try, Try’ there. What’s wrong with this one?
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the try, try, try video is sooooo baddddddd
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Billy’s movements make my skin crawl, so cringey, especially the acapella bit
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Great song though
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Also what the fuck is he wearing, he gives me the creeps so much
Gonna watch this Try Try Try one now
please don’t
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I did and now I wish I’d listened to your advice
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yeah, right? Like I actually wasn’t kidding around, it’s fucking horrible. I remember seeing the full version (cuz the flashback gets cut from tv) when I got the SP music videos DVD and being kinda traumatised by it for a while because I was like “oh what’s this par-HOLY SHIT WHAT IS HAPPENING”
This is already a great post.
I guess in some sense you’re right about this. Despite my (constant) acknowledgment of how unfairly he’s treated and how wrongly maligned Machina is, I guess there’s a shred of optimism in me that at least a small percentage of people will come around or that at least one critic will say, “hey, this was actually great, Corgan was right” and someone will listen. But you’re right in that most of the album’s critics won’t care. And for me personally, they’re already incredible and firmly entrenched in my mind as they are. I wasn’t kidding at all when I said I think Machina I is the best album of the millennium.
I think it depends on the band and their goal with it. If it’s a case of dumping out everything they did, then the album usually suffers due its length and feels more like a collection. And obviously when a band tries to mask their lack of good ideas under the “double album means art” veil or through sheer volume (see Arcade Fire). But sometimes it’s necessary - for instance, I can’t imagine Lift Yr Skinny Fists as a single album, and despite what some people are saying, Mellon Collie would lose an incredible amount of its essence as a single album. I think when the artist sets out to build a musical world or cohesive whole, double albums can be incredibly effective or emotionally taxing in a way that a single one couldn’t have.
Agree 100% with this. Distortion is fantastic and I hate how it’s considered by so many critics to be a sign of immaturity. There’s nothing I hate more than the “they stopped using distortion, they’re mature now, they’ve grown up” narrative. I think it’s a valid selling technique regarding the Machina songs though since the number one complaint about Machina (by the people who have actually listened to it) is that they can’t get past the production. (Also the “Wound” demo “If You Wait” is basically a completely different song that happens to share a chorus.)
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Listening to Machina for the first time in ages today and boy is it delivering, it’s even better than I had been remembering. I’m not necessarily going to make the argument myself, but I think a case really does exist for it being their best album.