Murderer who was later fired from his job because of a sex scandal dies


It’s funny who we celebrate, eh?

Dirty Den’s dead. RIP Leslie Grantham.


Think you were in first.



do you believe in rehabilitation (public poll)

  • yes
  • no

0 voters

do you believe that murder of this nature is unforgivable regardless of rehabilitation? (anon)

  • yes
  • no

0 voters


Didn’t know about the murder until today, woah


You could say it has been brought to light as if by a Grizzly Lantern (pronounced Greslie Lantham)


I believe he can be rehabilitated - the fact that he was the lead actor in a soap opera shows that.

But can you ever truly forgive someone for murder? This wasn’t manslaughter - reading about it, he took out a loaded gun on a burglary and shot a taxi driver. It’s not self defence or anything like that. Perhaps you can forgive but not forget.


I assume people on twitter are saying stuff like “he’ll probably walk back in the door in 15 years hahaha”.

(I’m posting it while simultaneously letting you all know I’m above posting it, because that’s the plain I’m operating on these days)


(the more I think about it, that should be “plane”, shouldn’t it?)


It’s self-evident to see.


good answer. this stuff interests me a whole lot coz my mum was high up in the probation service (big wheel cracker factory milhouse etc), and she often had to deal with this kind of conflict internally. if someone has murdered someone in their past are they now a murderer first and foremost? and so on.


Don’t believe rehabilitation is possible for quite a few people, certainly for most


yeah i guess for me the interest is whether severity of crime makes us believe that there’s less chance of rehabilitation. For instance, is someone who kicks the crap out of someone in a pub more likely to ‘come out good’ than someone who stabs someone later outside of a pub


I think he got his comeuppance when he got shot with that bunch of flowers


this is i think a rational point of view and i’d likely say the same


We’re all the product of genes, the people around us and, ultimately the laws of nature +/- a bit of randomness from quantum mechanics. Ultimately all of our decisions, be they kind or murderous, are the function of physical processes which we explain to ourselves as being things we ‘chose’ to do. The whole notion of blame and responsibility is a kind of construct which we have to believe in in order to not go down an existential rabbit hole. But it does make me a very strong believer in rehabilitation. Of course, it’s impossible to act totally ‘rationally’ and so we need to consider people’s emotions in how we reintroduce someone who has committed a heinous crime back into society, plus there’s a whole load of debate to be had about the importance of punishment. IDK, not sure where this post is really going now…


it’s really hard to even talk about coherently without checking yourself several times over. it’s why i put the polls up coz it’s a big question that’s always interested me.


our two threads have taken very different paths


i assume as always yours is just you making fart noises while wearing Kanye shades


That’s a good thing. I had hoped that this might turn into a “what should people be remembered for” type thread, but there’s plenty of scope at the same time for a “let’s talk about Dirty Den” thread too. Vive le difference!


Free will is one of those things you can’t think about too hard and remain sane…