"Negging", pick up artists etc

Something @kermitwormit 's thread reminded me of- how widespread the nasty trick of negging people is with stuff like internet dating.

If you’re fortunate enough to not know what it is, it’s when someone deliberately makes snidey little back-handed comments to lower the other person’s confidence and gain the upper hand in the power dynamic. Internet seduction guides tell clueless young men to do it to trick women into sleeping with them. Seems to go with an idea that dates are a zero sum game- there must be a winner and a loser on this date, and they’re going to get the first punch in.

It was absolutely rife when I tried the hellscape that was attempting internet dating in London. Gay male friends have also complained about it. In fact I was pleasantly surprised when I went for a drink with someone and they didn’t make rude remarks about my appearance or weight or negatively compare me to their ex or the imaginary women they “normally” get. They were always kind of surprised when I’d just leave early. This internet told them it would work?

Your experiences?

wait so like people are told to be rude about other people in order to lower their self-esteem? that’s fucked up

Yep be rude and manipulative to make the other person feel like shit so you have control.

Is this common? Sounds sociopathic to me and a sign that the other person doesn’t view you as a human being


Welcome to the dating pool



Sounds fucking horrendous though. Also that “internet seduction guides” are still a thing.

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I guess a lot of people/men see dating as a kind of game. I can understand putting on your best self and maybe faking being cool to try to impress a date but putting them down so that they are easy to manipulate and are impressed with you and see you as superior? That’s fucked

It creates the far-right incel pipeline as well. They read these guides, try out the stuff rather than just be a person, and of course it either doesn’t work or only gets you a very unhealthy relationship.

Those seduction guides go on about how you need to “show value” to your date. If you are not an impressive person, it’s easier to be the impressive one if you put the other person down a bit. You don’t have to become more, they just get made a bit less.

The thing that was abundantly clear from my interactions with those people- they did not care in the slightest if I had a nice time or not, or they wouldn’t say those kind of rude things. Great way to introduce yourself as a possible partner!

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Think that book ‘The Game’ is responsible for this


Even Neil Strauss has apologised for The Game, you’d think the idiots who follow this sort of ideology (because that’s what it is, an ideology of male supremacy and hunter tactics) would have wised up to the fact that it’s bullshit by now


Sort of le Gameoi I guess?

They just add new “rules” and tips. Sort of a video game walkthrough approach to human relationships.


Sometimes I think it’s lucky that I’m a bit of a burn out and don’t have anything to offer in a mainstream sense as it’s helped me avoid this kind of thinking. I remember a friend of mine once saying she would never date somebody who didn’t drive and it kind of hit me then that I’m not really running in the same lane with a lot of people. On balance I think I’m happy to just stay single to avoid all the stresses of a relationship and avoid disappointing or upsetting people.

It’s just such bullshit though. As full disclosure, I was a very confused teenager and briefly fell into the whirl of reading this sort of stuff - it never resonated with me, I never tried it out (because I could see it was fucking dumb and dehumanising), but I did gain an understanding of it. It put me off hanging out with other men for ages.

In fairness, the idea of hanging out with other men still makes me feel a bit weird unless they’re guys I know, because i see performative masculinity all the time in people and it makes me want to hurl.

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The common factor between the worst cases I encountered in London was the level of entitlement. They had moved to London to be the Big Deal with the Job (actual people who grew up in London are not like this at all in general), and now they felt entitled to the right Lifestyle Accessory. They are important and deserve a physically perfect instagram model, who also has a cool but respectable job (and plenty of money) and is clever/cool enough to be impressive and enviable to other men and never embarrass them in public, but not so much that their poor ego would be bruised. They didn’t seem to actually want to be in a relationship with a real human being.

There was a reason these men were available for first dates on an app at short notice.


Doesn’t sound like a recipe for happiness for them even if they do get what they want either, viewing your life as a kind of way to prove to others that you have the right social status is unhealthy for sure.

I’m sure they wish they could just order someone from a catalogue.

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But they also have to win them, so that wouldn’t work. They have to ‘conquer’ to show their prowess