#36

wtf

4 Likes
#37

Iā€™d be willing to allow that she was unaware of the racist stereotypes attached to the character, but itā€™s taken her 11 hours to delete it (literally just gone while I was typing this response) and sheā€™s already been posting on Twitter this morning before dealing with it. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

#38

why are they like this

#39

That outflanking Labour for the black/Asian communities is going well then.

6 Likes
#40

Have been telling my #LibDemMate that Moran was the candidate most likely to win votes back from young Corbynite voters lol

#41

3 years ago

feels like about 10

3 Likes
#42

Lib Dem slide

#43

kind of sad to think how exciting it seemed at the time. in hindsight, it didnā€™t really achieve anything meaningful on a national level.

maybe iā€™ve forgotten something but i can only think of having ā€˜wonā€™ pointless dick swinging contests (defeating the gvmt on a bunch of Brexit votesā€¦ which didnā€™t matter ultimately and probably ended up being counterproductive electorally. the most members of any partyā€¦ which means jack shit compared to the influence of those with power and influence at the top. was there anything else? giving people hope for a bitā€¦ in vain. was there anything else?). it really seemed like a victory at the time but it justā€¦ wasnā€™t, was it? maybe a relative victory but what tangible good did that do anyone in the end? fuck all.

sorry. itā€™s hard to feel anything other than resentful as shit when the public looked at the party in 2019 and thought that that flood of piss and poison and privilege was a better choice. and now 50,000 people are dead.*

[*obviously not saying it is Corbynā€™s fault that 50k people are dead - using the figure of COVID-19 and excess deaths there. just devastating that the party was so fragmented and unconvincing and over-ambitious and outmanoeuvred last year, meaning that this shower of shit ended up in a position of power in this crisis, and chose to respond with delusions of British exceptionalism and maverickdom. which, shockingly, are no protection against a virus.]

1 Like
#44

The difference between '17 and '19 can be boiled down to three things: 1. Brexit 2. The decay of trust in northern communities (connected to point 1) and 3. The unnerved right wing media and state broadcaster integrating into an unadulterated, full saturate propaganda machine.

The really depressing thing for me is that we have chosen a party leader who is singularly ill-suited to dealing with any of these.

1 Like
#45

I agree that those are all factors but I donā€™t believe you can solely boil it down to those three. With the manifesto, leader and messaging in place as they were, I genuinely donā€™t believe Labour would have won if none of the three things you mentioned had been an issue.

I have literally no appetite for either defending or criticising Starmer right now, I donā€™t think heā€™s interesting at all (which is probably more of a good thing than a bad thing atm, but itā€™s a foolā€™s errand to try and predict anything these days). I think I agree that heā€™s not well equipped to deal with the issues you raised, but I donā€™t really believe that of any of the leadership candidates.

I absolutely believe that the decay of trust in the party within ā€˜red wallā€™ communities lies with New Labour rather than Corbyn, even if it took until 2019 to totally fall. But I canā€™t say Iā€™m looking forward to 4 years of Yvette Cooper poll gotchas in these threads and visions that the Corbyn revolution was foiled only by the media and Brexit and none of his own, the partyā€™s own, and the campaignā€™s own shortcomings.

5 Likes
#46

Yeah, I didnā€™t want to give the impression I think Corbyn and co didnā€™t make mistakes. They did, serious ones. I also agree with everything you said about Starmer; one way or another heā€™s not interesting to talk about. But in terms of explaining the difference between the '17 and '19 results those are the three really big factors for me, and the three Iā€™m most interested in hearing solutions to.

1 Like
#47

I think one of the problems is that in 2017 the bit of the manifesto that cut through were the bits that were always going to land really well, like nationalising the rail/energy/water companies.

Whereas in 2019 it was the broadband idea.

2019 had too many new ideas, should have stuck to the basic winners

2 Likes
#48

Nationalised broadband was a great idea, but in terms of selling it to the public they needed to be the laying the groundwork years in advance. This country has been trained to be very small c conservative, and when you come out with an idea like that a couple of weeks before the election it sounds like you pulled it of your arse.

11 Likes
#49

I think 2019 just had too much full stop, it felt like the kitchen sink was being chucked at ppl. Trying to promise dozens of big things to an electorate that thinks politicians are liars who break their promisesā€¦ It was a total non starter regardless of how good any ideas in it were, especially when the other parties really just seemed to promise one thing (GET BREXIT DONE / STOP BREXIT), which seems a lot more manageable/realistic.

@Parsefone agreed. There needs to be a real effort to get people to start viewing broadband as a necessity and not a luxury. As soon as you actually get the electorate to properly think about it then itā€™s really hard to deny itā€™s a necessity (and will only become more so in future) - once that shift has happened then you can start making a real case for nationalising it.

3 Likes
#50

The problem with broadband is that itā€™s still marketed by the companies as a luxury product. Itā€™s bundled with stuff people think of as semi-essential (phone, telly), but where youā€™re constantly encouraged to fork out for more channels, more bits etc. Until that reaches a level where very few people care about having anything beyond the basic entry level model itā€™s doomed to be seen as a luxury product.

Of course the current situation will cement it a bit more as a necessity, but ultimately I suspect 5G worming its way into every aspect of our lives is more likely to move public feeling in that direction.

1 Like
#51

Probably true, but I think lockdown will have changed a few minds about that. Lots of office drones now reliant on having decent internet to make a living

#52

Yes absolutely, but until it leaves peopleā€™s mindset that they could always ā€œupgrade to the premium packageā€ it will still sit as a luxury product in their mental image.

#53

Yeah true. Thereā€™s a few people at my office who probably would go for a 10tb connection at home, because they have kids caning Netflix all day and canā€™t get on a Zoom meeting (probably not enough of them to tip an election though)

#54

Tory in trying and failing to appear human shocker

#55

tbh I donā€™t quite get why Rudd is getting tagged there. What am I missing?

Just noticed the latest Momentum video and it occurred to me that Matt Hancock does a very memeable confused face. Are there lots of confused Matt Hancock memes or have I just invented the concept?