#3257
1 Like
#3258

There’s definitely an element of that. Though the Tories popularity has only gone down, and Labour’s up since. They’ve taken another big blow, there’s few high profile Tory MPs without egg on their faces and after the best part of a decade in power, they’re faced with people just wanting a change anyway. Think it won’t be that hard to convince people who voted Labour as a “one off” this time to do it again, or to convince the centrists who fell for the “strong and stable” shtick and are now a bit miffed to convert.

#3259

This is worth a read, if only for the tidbit that the supposed leaker of the manifesto was Chris Leslie, trying to scupper Corbyn’s chances:

#3260

that was a nice read, thanks!

#3261

ever dealt with someone at work who was fucking useless? either a customer/client or a colleague?

i think that’s what turns people to conservatism, people thinking “people are useless or they’re great, and therefore people who are less good than me deserve no help, everyone ends up where they deserve to be”

i think the world is simultaneously more meritocratic and less meritocratic than the average person thinks

someone earning £80k a year almost certainly has worked pretty hard to get there. the thing is, someone earning £8k a year is just as likely to have worked just as if not harder (single parents, those that have to unpaid care work being obvious possible examples). problems come from thinking that someone’s financial situation correlates with how hard they’ve worked.

from my experience of dealing with young people in shitty low level jobs, it’s frustrating when they don’t see that simple easy things like turning up on time (especially after being warned about being constantly late) do matter

one of the reasons i got promoted in previous companies was simply turning up, being reliable and not being a dick

however, there are still massive structural problems with how society operates - relatively speaking i am fairly privileged so it’s certainly not just my personal decisions and hard work that’s got me to where i am in life (funnily enough i am currently working part time and have had to massively cut back my spending as i don’t have much money)

(i have no idea if this post is coherent)

(also the edit on this was rather important, thank fuck i got it in)

1 Like
#3262

Nah. I got (nearly) there by being lucky enough to be born clever and then being even luckier in being presented with opportunities (access to good education) to use it. And being even luckier in not having had any personal or systematic barriers put in my way that would prevent me from benefiting from all of this.

The idea that I work even a fraction as hard as, say, a nurse is absurd.

5 Likes
Where do your political beliefs come from?
#3263

Yup. Golden nugget there.

5 Likes
#3264

To develop the idea a bit further, there is a widespread feeling that the amount you earn or your net worth or whatever should be related to how hard you work (essentially the Protestant Work Ethic). But under capitalism what you earn isn’t related to that directly, it’s related to the economic value of the work you do. Even that relationship is flawed of course, but broadly that’s the principle. Hence the fact that nurses get a pittance and Epimer wipes his arse on 50s is not an anomaly, it’s how things are “supposed” to work. But people don’t see it that way.

#3265

I’d even argue that this relationship is broken, because it’s not about who has value (or who adds value), but who has power and who controls the flow of wealth.

The value of a nurse in economic terms to society is probably greater than that of, say, a patent lawyer.

1 Like
#3266

Epimer’s gonna get lynched in a minute

#3267

a ha! I’m your boss and this is an elaborate sting operation.

I KNEW it. I bloody knew it.

Come and see me in my office for a massive dressing down/pay cut/bumming.

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#3268

Certainly some truth to this

I have a bit of a problem with this though

[quote=“iamwiggy, post:3261, topic:15116”]
from my experience of dealing with young people in shitty low level jobs, it’s frustrating when they don’t see that simple easy things like turning up on time (especially after being warned about being constantly late) do matter

one of the reasons i got promoted in previous companies was simply turning up, being reliable and not being a dick.[/quote]

Not because it’s inherently wrong - it’s not, they do matter - but because my impression is that these days many (not all) of jobs at the bottom end of the market are both dehumnanising and devoid of progression opportunities - when people end up both being treated as purely a “resource” rather than an individual and don’t see any possibility of reward for doing a decent job then it’s not surprising that they won’t put any more than the minimum effort in. Things like zero hour contracts, impossible targets, timing of toilet breaks, forcing employees to pay for their own training/uniforms, in locations & with hours that make travel difficult/expensive etc - there’s too much stick and not enough carrot.

This would have been more effective coming from someone who isn’t labeled “Muscle-Bound Love-Truncheon”.

4 Likes
#3269

And one of my biggest bug bears is how ‘realists’ focusing on pure economics still take such a narrow view when it comes to the debate on investment in things like the NHS.

Investing in the NHS has a multiplying benefit to society as a whole, keeping people healthy and, crudely, economically productive, in a way that is just about the most efficient example of its type amongst equivalent economies.

This is a good article on the principle:

And this is always a good quote:

4 Likes
#3270

Agreed.

#3272

Good work

#3274

The implicit separation of the need for investment in the UK from the need for investment in state assets is so profoundly ideological it essentially outright deceit. I’ve mostly spent the last 5 days thinking about how awedome it would be to have state competition act as a tether to infrastructure investment, so as to prevent its exploitation and keep it serving the common good as well as ensuring growth.

To bastardise the meme, nationalisation is back baby. It’s good again.

#3275

Awoo! (wolf howl)

4 Likes
#3276

have state competition act as a tether to infrastructure investment,

I don’t understand this bit.

#3277

Have we had a fantasy yet today? No? OK here’s mine:

Having spent several days now with the DUP, understandably Theresa May has lost the will to live. She knows, because she isn’t a total dolt, that her political career is over. So she comes up with a plan. It’s a plan that suits her style quite well to be honest. The plan is to come out and say “Brexit’s off. No I’m not going to give you a reason. Everyone back to work.”

2 Likes
#3278

Just the idea of state ownership - either competing in a market or as full nationalisation - as functional part of the investment model, so that assets and necessary markets contribute to the public good. Investment opportunities are explored at least in partnership with the public, rather than bypassing them except at consumers.

I’m not trying to be complicate. I’m not adding much to debates at the moment, just recalibrating towards the postive and letting my fear and anxiety dissipate. It’s been a while.