Official general election thread


#486

DON’T TREAD ON ME


#487

Yup, it’s fairly sad to see UK right wingers trying to co-opt more racism and dubious attitudes into the Union Flag, TBH.


#488

Looking at a few properties, aye.


#489

that’s a rather frank embrace of the evil


#490

So the answer is ‘close, but no’.


#491

he should stick to drumming tbh


#492

Maybe the lyrics are different in the live action version.


#493

Sorry xylo - another one piling in to say this article isn’t very good. I don’t think it’s actually written by someone who understands the Labour Party and its various factions, if you want to call them that. Dunno how someone who has used so many words has arrived at oversimplification (czuk and marckee have picked the various problems apart already) but he’s managed it.


#494

Oh fuck. I take back everything I said yesterday.


#495

The Mail takes a moment to reassure people


#496

I want that paper to die a lot now.


#497

Yep, all this ‘she wants a strong hand to negotiate a soft brexit’ - nah, she’s a totalitarian wacko who will do anything to get rid of foreigners. And leave the single market/fuck the economy.


#498

I pretty hugely disagree that it’s someone without an understanding of labour. I fully agree however that he’s making a heavy point by omission of some of its members (or rather a whole branch of) and being pretty selective about how he angles it.

But the huge number of words he’s used to do so is largely… the actual history of the Labour Party. Are any of his notes on the various leanings innacurate? Which?

And at its core, while both marckee and Colin have made good points that bear inserting into that articles narrative to make it more accurate, the point stands: the new wave of labour signups - not those returning - are throwing everything

Maybe for the better, sure. But certainly at full odds with what came before and therefore fracturing the party to the nth degree. The broad church as it’s been called a couple of times now is no longer hosting a congregation willing to get over their differences. Labour is being destroyed. Hopefully something huge comes out of the ashes, but I wonder if the old hardcore in the unions will have any benefit from what that is, and where they’ll go instead.


#499

can we draw up a petition for the grauniad and Polly by-golly-I’m-a-Blairite Toynbee to stop slagging off Jezza because it would be more important to concentrate on getting the dastardly tories out (OH YES IT IS!)?

meh - she’s REALLY getting on my tits… LOOK AT THIS.


#500

“He does understand it - he’s just misrepresenting it!” - either way, the result remains the same. I don’t claim to be an expert on the Labour party but Labour has ALWAYS governed to the right of its Membership. That’s how it works. There is a battle for control at the heart of the Labour Party and its structures. But it’s always been thus. The writer seems critical when it comes from the left of party, ignoring how the right of the party successfully did this in the 90s/00s. The article puts WAY too much emphasis on the old Trot wings. Yes some have returned under Corbyn. Yes Tom Watson’s assessment that some of them are “trying to twist young arms” is correct. Is the Labour Party awash with them to the extent we should focus on them? No.

Labour has always been an internal battleground. The current battles are only notable insofar as they are a condition of their times; not insofar as they are the DEATH OF THE LABOUR PARTY or similar.


#501

that last para/couple sentences i really like. i see your point there. you’re saying the turmoil in Labour isn’t as much about the party as it is the flux from outside being emulated by the party on the inside/conflict of opinions etc.

Do you not see the new signups as an entirely new entity? I genuinely think they’re nothing like even yer DiS commies here. Whole new breed. Maybe.


#502

There are probably, what, at most 10,000 trotskyists in the UK? That’s less than 2% of the total membership, assuming that every single one of them has now joined the party.

This is probably the best breakdown I’ve seen of the new/returning members since GE2015, although it still doesn’t ask whether they have been members of Labour, or another political party before:


#503

ah this is good cheers


#504

I don’t know enough about them to comment if I’m honest. My second-hand assessment (and I’m tying this in with my observations on Momentum because the 2 are intrinsically linked) is that the majority of them are decent people, galvanised by Corbyn’s messaging who seek political change away from both the Tories and what they would call Blairite compromising. Most of them just want the Labour party to be the change they want to see in the world, for want of a banal phrase. But that’s the same as all of us Members.

The main concern for the ‘Corbyn project’ as I understand it is that for it to succeed and to successfully a) win power within the structures of the Labour Party and b) take its message to the country as a whole, is that not enough of the new entrants are getting involved with either the party or community activism. This is not a criticism of them in the slightest - but this is more of an impediment to the ‘Corbyn project’ than others I think. (Once again, writing from the position of not being anything resembling an expert on the Labour Party).


#505

yeah i mean i know a great many people who will tell me about JC til the cows come home. if you ask about any campaigning etc: “i go to rallies/marches”