#859

Made it halfway through a Nietzsche book this year, that was better written at least

#860

David Hume’s writing is tedious in the extreme, tbf.

!!!

#861

I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying why they’ve ordered their world the way they have should have been better explored than it was. You can kill a person with the size of those later books, but despite that there’s no real discussion of it, how it came about, whether it’s truly right and so on. It’s a power structure that is simply there and that’s all there is to it. I find that troubling, particularly in the context of the nostalgic pinings for early 20th century Britain. I would totally accept it if I had felt that it had been properly addressed.

Also the thing about irl witch burning is a muddled justification at best. If I remember correctly this was portrayed as something amusing the Muggles tried to do once but had no effect on real wizards, since they could cast anti-burning spells or whatever. It points to a larger tonal problem where the terrifying peril the Muggles represent justifies the utmost secrecy, but also they’re silly and stupid and look at their plug sockets! Again there’s real life parallels there that make me deeply uncomfortable.

I accept your wider point that the Good Wizards preach toleration of normies and practice it, but beneath the lid I can’t help but feel a lot of cultural biases shaped the HP universe that Rowling never bothered to really consider. Which I feel is important to do if your major aesthetic is early 20th century Britain.

#863

Immanuel Kant 4 lyf

2 Likes
#864

Humeid take.

Cheers guys!

4 Likes
#866

maybe I’m just a better philosopher than Hume so I was already operating above his level idk.

4 Likes
#868

kind of feel like I operate on a level that’s parallel to humour.

Like a meta Socrates

1 Like
#870

Quite like the Harry Potter films.

4 Likes
#872

Wasn’t that Pringle was handed to him by @penoid

#873

that would be too good

#874

WIZARD OR MUGGLE IN THE GRAVE WE’RE ALL THE SAME I.E. DEAD

1 Like
#876

What’s happened? I’m here for some lighthearted boy wizard chat. That Deathly Hallows Part 1 eh? Decent film.

1 Like
#878

I like when you see a nude Harry and Hermione in a cloud.

2 Likes
#879

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said.

There are ENORMOUS plot holes and problems with the way in which the whole wizard world works and this doesn’t just extend to how it relates to muggles: there’s a complete lack of internal logic.

How many wizards are there? Only a handful, surely, as there are only enough kids to fill one school in the entire UK (and a school with about five staff too
) and yet they have a huge ministry and a hospital with multiple wards, which surely must mean there are many many more than could be supported by one school. Then there’s the whole ‘if apparating is a thing, why bother with broomsticks’ etc etc etc.

It’s clear that Rowling was thinking about the plot and character of the series and not the actual logistics many of which she made up as she went along (fudged if you will*) many of which don’t stand up to any kind of scrutiny at all.

I think it’s mean spirited though to use this to decry the politics of the book. From my experience as both parent and teacher, kids come away from HP with a ‘fascism is bad’, ‘accepting people who are different to you is good’ message loud and clear.

I know what you’re going to say: they’re influenced subconsciously by the propping up of quasi-imperialist hierarchies etc but I just don’t think that this is the main take away.

I’ve seen schools become much more tolerant places in the 20 years I’ve been teaching and I’m certainly not going to place all of the credit for that with JK, but I really don’t think that the message of inclusion, “you can’t call people mudbloods just because their family is different to yours”, has genuinely helped.

They have many problems, but overall I have seen HP books as a force for good. There’s some atrocious writing in there and definitely some political problems, but overall far more positives than negatives.

8 Likes
#881

Meant to add:

. * sorry, I am so so sorry.

4 Likes
#882

this is a bit, we have cars, so why bother with the activity that shall not be named

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#885

Yeah, this is fair and I’m happy to leave it there. It’s heartening that you feel it’s had a genuine positive impact upon the younger generation, and I don’t have the real life experience to argue against that.

There was something I was striking at beyond the internal logic of the book - that that simplistic ‘fascism = bad, tolerance = good’ message has troubling consequences if you don’t drill beneath it, consider the structures, which can be seen in Rowling’s own political views, and the adults who for instance take to twitter to eagerly compare Trump to Voldemort. But you of course are right that it isn’t fair to weigh these charges upon a children’s book, however undying and invested in it the author herself is with it, and ultimately there are far worse messages out there to drum into kids.

3 Likes
#886

I would agree with all of that, absolutely. I think that’s a good place to leave it and I think we’ve found some positive common ground.

#887

Wait, wait, wait, don’t give up now! We can keep this going. Give me a sec.

A selected bunch of kids go to an exclusive boarding school where old white people teach them about the huge power they have privileged access to - it’s Tory propaganda!

(don’t actually have the heart or stomach for this thread anymore)

#888

Hagrid did join ISIS though


2 Likes