Pinegrove

Very interesting deep dive into the Pinegrove situation, clarifying a lot of what has been a confusing mess. Seems as though they’re emerging from stasis. Really worth a read. I came away exhausted and feeling sorry for everyone involved, tbh.

The stuff surrounding Sheridan Allen is very troubling. Came away thinking the same as you.

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Can’t remember the last time I read such a well researched and balanced piece, on any subject really.

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This looks great, will have a read. Unrelated question, but why the fuck do Pitchfork have a video of Bruce Springsteen and a link to another article between paragraphs? Super distracting.

i really disagree with this tbh. think it’s very weird to have someone who is so clearly biased basically burying the admission of guilt in the middle of a massive promotional article which spends a lot of time gushing about how good the band are.

That…isn’t really what the article is though. At all.

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At least how I read it.

please elaborate? don’t want to read the article if this is the case. what’s the admission of guilt? what’s your take on this?

this is what he says:

"In the context of our relationship, she felt that I had sometimes pressured her into having sex—not physically, but verbally and contextually.”

The rest of the article is just a load of shit about how important the band are to the author and how some other, well intentioned person got involved at some point, which is completely irrelevant to what Hall allegedly did, but seems to just try and absolve him of guilt somehow. and then ends with a load of stuff like this:

“Skylight’s stark centerpiece, “Thanksgiving,” is perhaps most uncanny of all considering how closely the fallout overlapped with that holiday a year ago: “Warm night before Thanksgiving/What do I have to be nervous for?” On the album’s closer, the pedal-steel weeper “Light On,” Hall pleads, “I wanna do much better.””

which to me, in an article addressing allegations of sexual assault, just seems very weird. especially as this is timed 2 days before they self-release the album.

eesh. thanks. I’ll be giving the article and the album a miss.

weird and pretty shit that Pitchfork are letting this slide, but then I guess their position as cultural gatekeepers with regards to ethical stuff has always been a bit compromised one way or another.

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It’s really not though is it? The “well intentioned” person literally completely misrepresented something told to them in confidence, and fallaciously represented themselves to said person. Thats not something a “well intentioned” person does.

It really feels like you’ve picked a paragraph to completely distort the article there.

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" Allen proceeded to describe Hall’s “predatory and manipulative behavior toward women attending Pinegrove shows and women he has been sexually involved with.” She stated that the alleged victim was “NOT THE FIRST” (emphasis hers) to tell her as much. She shared her belief, “as a mental health professional,” "

In her email to Punk Talks staff, Allen mentioned a second “identified victim” of Hall’s. That person was—in Allen’s mind—Autumn Lavis, a Phoenix-based organizer and educator who has helped run an organization called Safer Scenes, which traveled on Warped Tour teaching bystander intervention to bands, crew, and fans. “I have been a victim of sexual assault and I have spent years working to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone else,” Lavis told me. “But my involvement with Evan wasn’t like that.”

When the hurt of their relationship was still fresh, Lavis said she vented to Allen, who was her friend at the time. In the fall of 2017, Allen contacted Lavis to discuss Hall again. “She kind of made me feel worse about the situation,” said Lavis, who grew concerned when she saw a screenshot of Allen’s internal Punk Talks email circulating. “I asked Sheridan if she was referring to me [as a victim], because I had a strong feeling, and she said yes. I told her that I felt like I was misrepresented. She was apologetic. But it didn’t fix the situation.”

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I think, though I thought the article was well-parsed, there’s room for more than one interpretation. For my part, I must admit, I think the ‘well-intentioned’ person sounds like a manipulator at best and a pathological liar at worst.

Surely the beginning and end of the conversation with regards to her is that she forced all of this into the public domain against the victim’s wishes?

idk which of you is right, but I’d rather wait for articles from elsewhere to emerge. feels uncomfortable getting an update on this from somewhere that is primarily a very marketable music reviews site.

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Hm. Personally think that’s a pretty uncharitable reading of the article, and there is quite a lot of contextual detail that he gives to the quote that you’ve taken which gives so much more context to it. I think it’s fair to still feel weird about Pinegrove but I don’t think it’s fair to totally misrepresent something which is much more nuanced in the full article.

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my god that point was badly made, but you get my drift hopefully

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I don’t think you’re going to get anything more nuanced to be honest, whatever the platform. Completely appreciate that people don’t really want to read more after the original accusation though.

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I guess the point is do you think all this absolves Hall?

Is complete absolution required? Is it even possible? He’s complied (willingly) with the terms of the victim, taken the band off the road for a year, and they’re donating proceeds to charity. Also has been in weekly therapy ever since.

I don’t think he walks out of this a saint but it seems he’s made a genuine effort to learn and improve himself.

Edit to add: of course, it will be down to individual listeners to make their decision. I’m not out here sounding the horn to forgive him - but in this moment it is worth everyone watching what the correct response to something like this is - and it’s totally valid for people to think this is not the correct response.

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What the fuck? Where have I even come close to have suggested that? Merely I think it’s good that the details of what happened has been reported on with what I think is an even hand and a very good amount of detail that doesn’t encroach on the affected parties wishes.

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