Rolling Descent into Fascism Thread [chat away]


#2004

I’m going to Rio next Feb to visit my girlfriend’s family. Going to have to think about whether we actually feel safe going any more.

Her parents are planning to move out of the country as quickly as possible. They lived through the dictatorship and know what it was like, and don’t want to return to anything like it. Not only that, but almost their whole family and friends voted for Bolsonaro and have been bullying them for not voting for him as well - so in a sense this election has torn their whole life apart. Heartbreaking.


#2005

Rocks forwards and backwards in fetal position


#2006

AfD at 12%?!

How are the centrist going to spin this one yo imply it still has worth?


#2007

:frowning: Rio seems even more messed up than SP, that Witzel guy ffs


#2008

I don’t know much about politics in Germany, but they’ve not really risen much from their numbers at the Federal elections in 2015, so it’s not necessarily such a surprise for them to be polling like that. If anything, they’re stalling, which is goodneutral rather than bad.


#2009

Yeah he’s a fucking monster by all accounts.


#2010

how so? that’s fucked up. :frowning:


#2011

Yeah but see the drop in the centrists


#2012

I think because Bolsonaro ran such a successful campaign, in the sense that he made a vote for anyone else look like a vote for ‘communists’/a vote against Brazil. In some ways it’s similar to how Brexit divided families over here - it suddenly somehow because such a personal vote that this sort of bullying became easier. It’s a tactic I think Trump used pretty successfully as well.


#2013

So many people in the BJJ community support Bolsonaro, the absolute state of this.


#2014

ALSO I think a significant portion of the voting for Bolsonaro was actually an anti-PT vote, because so many people hate PT for what they see as corruption which has wrecked Brazil. Interestingly though this is what a lot of people who did end up voting for Haddad felt, a lot of the split in those people was essentially between whether you hate PT enough to vote for a fascist, or whether you hate PT but hate the alternative more.

Alongside all of this, Bolsonaro has been a politician for 27 years and faced accusations of corruption a number of times…so he’s pulled off a masterful illusion to somehow position himself as anti-establishment, and an ‘alternative’ to the mainstream. Ring any bells?


#2015

how come lula was polling so well if people hate the pt so much?

sorry that sounds rude and like i don’t believe you but it’s a genuine question

also has anyone seen a decent class breakdown split of who voted for who?


#2016

Aye, all this. It’s an unelectable left vs an “at least it’s an alternative” right. None of the (progressive) Brazilians I know really wanted to vote PT, and they’d have probably fared even worse if it wasn’t compulsory to vote.

I understand it as a much more extreme version of the stagnation, corruption and broken promises that Clinton represented vs the anti establishment Trump.


#2017

this is something i’ve struggled to get my head around. guess Lula’s seen by people as a personality who sort of transcends the corruption stuff he ended up mired in. remember seeing something weird like a large % people who’d vote for him also agreed with his prosecution


#2018

“He’s corrupt but he gets things done” kind of thing, which translates as “corrupt in a way that favours me”. Ben Fogle’s good on this in the second part of that podcast linked up there, it’s important to think critically about what anti-corruption really means.

Remember once reading that one of the reasons why many dictatorships like those of Chile and Brazil have a historical reputation for anti-corruption is that they tend to get rid of people that report on political corruption pretty quickly.


#2019

#2020

Was doing my usual trick of arguing with Tommy Robinson fans on Facebook…when someone said the only reason I would label Bolsanero a fascist was because the Overton window had moved so far to the left.

It was an argument of such ignorance that I didn’t know how to respond. Imagine having so little credible belief in your position that you’ll just make up any old shit to support it. Pride is very dangerous, in politics


#2021

Not an expert, but as mentioned above he was seen as ‘corrupt but got things done’, and also a lot of his policies genuinely did help some of brazil’s poorest people - a lot of his policies were the reason that they had food on the table. Think his policies were generally hated by the rich (hence the large swathes of support for Bolsonaro from people with a lot of money in Brazil) because he pumped a lot of public money into projects which genuinely helped ordinary Brazilians and helped balance social injustice just a bit. So that trumped the fact that he was a member of PT (who are generally a lot more loathed)


#2022

Didn’t think BJJ did honorary belts? Thought belts were rigorously tested for to maintain standards and all that, so you wouldn’t get some numpty doing a Mac from Always Sunny

Wait does this mean you can challenge him now?


#2023

Honorary black belts have been given out before for people who have in someway facilitated the spread of BJJ but this seems like it was entirely political which is even more depressing.

Minor upside is that there’s probably a black belt I could legitimately beat now.