Rolling Descent into Fascism Thread [chat away]


#2084

If you go to the thread there’s loads of other horrible stuff too. Can’t believe it’s happening in 2018.


#2085

200,000 people at a fascist demo in poland the other day :grimacing:


#2086

Has anyone actually ever read the Spectator?

I was stuck in a waiting room last night without any phone battery…and it was the only magazine available. It was actually pretty shocking how brazen it was, just page after page of contempt from the likes of Toby Young, James Delingpole, etc. (Lionel Shriver also proved herself to be pretty awful). Given it’s pseudo-intellectual guise, I’d say its even more dangerous than the Mail.


#2087

#2088

Seen articles pop up online it’s consistently pretty awful.


#2089

Woah

arresting state senators for peaceful protest. Great look.


#2090

Fully grim

I note they have put a firewall up now so you can’t read these articles but hey ho…

Basically everyone here in the main writers list is highly suspect regardless of where else they write.


#2091

Heartening stuff here


#2092

“When a sitting senator, who is the vice chair of the state Democratic Party, is thrown into a paddy wagon at the state capitol, it is a stark reminder that our right to freely assemble is at risk,” said state Sen. Nan Orrock (D-Atlanta)

why can’t they just say it’s already gone?


#2093

In large part, the fascism is not coming - it is already here, but people are understandably reluctant to admit it. But it is here.


#2094

i think the trouble is that if you stop people in the street and ask about fascism the word itself doesn’t particularly stir enough memories

if you ask people about nazi’s then it’s the obvious things that people would associate with them, so genocide and the fact that britain won ww2

this is why when we’ve said that trump is copying hitler, they don’t look any deeper than pointing out that he hasn’t started a world war and that they haven’t been called up to go fight


#2095

But most people’s knowledge of Hitler doesn’t include WW1, Versailles, Stab In The Back, Weimar, the Depression, the Reichstag Fire, Reparations, all of that broader context and more. It’s very hard to educate people to see the parallels, and also parallels can be unhelpful because obviously there’s 80 years between the two so it’s inexact, and people don’t want to believe that they’re living in a fascist state. It’s not so much about memories as it is about understanding the fragility of their freedoms and just how fast things can change. To use the same example as we started with, Germany moved from Imperial continental superpower to broken but decadent democracy, to bankrupt basket case, to mechanised fascist war state, to post-war occupied territories over the course of only 30 years. That’s incredible, like flicking a switch.


#2096

Steve Bannon is over in the UK and is being given a platform at the Oxford Union on Friday, and was interviewed at NewsXchange today.

As with Helen Lewis’s chat with Peterson, remember who it is that feels safe enough to try and debate these people on a large stage

Thread starts here. Trigger Warning: contains soft-soaping and the marketplace of ideas:


#2097

Really good this


#2098

#2099

just an update from over here:


#2100

Holy shit, wasn’t the regime only removed in 1975? You would have thought it would be recent enough in Spanish memory they’d be a bit less game for this shit?


#2101

There are loads of people in Spain who will openly say that they are nostalgic for Franco and that things were better when the regime was in charge. It’s not even taboo and they’re not all older people. I know someone in his early 40s who proudly holds those views.

Culturally in Spain it’s very clear that it’s a nation that used to be ruled by a fascist dictatorship. It’s not at all unusual to hear someone (particularly civil servants) tell you that they are “only following orders.”


#2102

Could quite easily do a Brazil then?


#2103

I’m not sure if I’m well versed enough in Spanish politics to say. I work for a Spanish company and spend quite a lot of time in Spain but I don’t follow the politics that closely, apart from the Catalan stuff because my colleague is active in the independence movement and I like to wind him up.

I think that left wing and youth movements in Spain, particularly Podemos, are strong enough to prevent a full on swing to the right a la Brazil. Spain’s a weird country though - loads of important stuff is nationalised suggesting a strong socialist ethos, but socially people are very conservative. @profk can probably speak more eloquently about Spanish politics than me.