Rolling Descent into Fascism Thread [chat away]


#1704

i agree up to a point, but i think in this volatile an atmosphere, where fringe notions like electing a tv show host president of the world or leaving the EU have become the dominant factor in politics, we’ve got to be on guard. people who were saying brexit = descent into fash, well, this is how it always begins, with small gains around the margins that initially don’t seem to mean very much.


#1705

Yeah I don’t disagree with any of that :+1:


#1706

Seen and heard quite a few sympathetic voices for the Tommy Robinson rally yesterday.

Are people really stupid?

Here’s one such thread


#1707

legitimate concerns

These people never, ever learn, do they.


#1708

This one has them on 8%(!)


#1709

Would people switching to UKIP and the emergence of a few FUCK OFF TRAITORS #MAGA independents mean a net gain for Labour in the medium term?


#1710

In terms of Labour’s lead over the Conservatives, yes. I don’t think it would affect Labour’s actual share of the vote though.


#1711

conservative/UKIP coalition then


#1712

there may be a slight drop for labour if ukips vote share continues to increase but nowhere near as much as the tories. hopefully this continues, get that fash vote carved up.


#1713

That would really test the Tory ‘rebels’ resolve…


#1714

How would that be different from just delivering shit Brexit and getting them all back voting Tory?


#1715

Hnnngh


#1716

Just saw a middle aged white man gong to the corner shop wearing a “FREETOMMY” t-shirt.

Is this the end for Britain?


#1717

Given Lord Sugar is ostensibly left-leaning and hates Nazis, I wonder if it concerns him at all that he now has two Apprentice winners who appear to be full fascists?


#1718

this thread gets incrementally creepier and more frightening as it goes along

find it strange/interesting how revolutions and civil wars have happened over relatively lesser kinds of repression elsewhere in the world but in the states, it’s just taken for granted that the feds will stuff you into a blacksite for posting on the wrong forum, or police will turn up dressed like they’re besieging fallujah to evict a tent city, or they’ll shoot down 1000s of black children a year, and the society just…continues to limp on.


#1719

c/p
Fintan O’Toole wrote this yesterday in The Irish Times:

“To grasp what is going on in the world right now, we need to reflect on two things. One is that we are in a phase of trial runs. The other is that what is being trialled is fascism – a word that should be used carefully but not shirked when it is so clearly on the horizon. Forget “post-fascist” – what we are living with is pre-fascism.

It is easy to dismiss Donald Trump as an ignoramus, not least because he is. But he has an acute understanding of one thing: test marketing. He created himself in the gossip pages of the New York tabloids, where celebrity is manufactured by planting outrageous stories that you can later confirm or deny depending on how they go down. And he recreated himself in reality TV where the storylines can be adjusted according to the ratings. Put something out there, pull it back, adjust, go again.

Fascism doesn’t arise suddenly in an existing democracy. It is not easy to get people to give up their ideas of freedom and civility. You have to do trial runs that, if they are done well, serve two purposes. They get people used to something they may initially recoil from; and they allow you to refine and calibrate. This is what is happening now and we would be fools not to see it.
One of the basic tools of fascism is the rigging of elections – we’ve seen that trialled in the election of Trump, in the Brexit referendum and (less successfully) in the French presidential elections. Another is the generation of tribal identities, the division of society into mutually exclusive polarities.

Fascism does not need a majority – it typically comes to power with about forty percent support and then uses control and intimidation to consolidate that power. So it doesn’t matter if most people hate you, as long as your forty percent is fanatically committed. That’s been tested out too.

And fascism of course needs a propaganda machine so effective that it creates for its followers a universe of “alternative facts” impervious to unwanted realities. Again, the testing for this is very far advanced.
But when you’ve done all this, there is a crucial next step, usually the trickiest of all. You have to undermine moral boundaries, inure people to the acceptance of acts of extreme cruelty. Like hounds, people have to be blooded. They have to be given the taste for savagery.

Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group. This allows the members of that group to be dehumanised. Once that has been achieved, you can gradually up the ante, working through the stages from breaking windows to extermination.

People have to be given the taste for savagery. Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group.

It is this next step that is being test-marketed now. It is being done in Italy by the far-right leader and minister for the interior Matteo Salvini. How would it go down if we turn away boatloads of refugees? Let’s do a screening of the rough-cut of registering all the Roma and see what buttons the audience will press. And it has been trialled by Trump: let’s see how my fans feel about crying babies in cages. I wonder how it will go down with Rupert Murdoch.

To see, as most commentary has done, the deliberate traumatisation of migrant children as a “mistake” by Trump is culpable naivety. It is a trial run – and the trial has been a huge success. Trump’s claim last week that immigrants “infest” the US is a test-marketing of whether his fans are ready for the next step-up in language, which is of course “vermin”.

And the generation of images of toddlers being dragged from their parents is a test of whether those words can be turned into sounds and pictures. It was always an experiment – it ended (but only in part) because the results were in.

And the results are quite satisfactory. There is good news on two fronts. First, Rupert Murdoch is happy with it – his Fox News mouthpieces outdid themselves in barbaric crassness: making animal noises at the mention of a Down syndrome child, describing crying children as actors. They went the whole swinish hog: even the brown babies are liars. Those sobs of anguish are typical of the manipulative behaviour of the strangers coming to infest us – should we not fear a race whose very infants can be so devious?

Second, the hardcore fans loved it: Fifty-eight percent of Republicans are in favour of this brutality. Trump’s overall approval ratings are up to 42.5 per cent.
This is greatly encouraging for the pre-fascist agenda. The blooding process has begun within the democratic world. The muscles that the propaganda machines need for defending the indefensible are being toned up. Millions and millions of Europeans and Americans are learning to think the unthinkable.

So what if those black people drown in the sea? So what if those brown toddlers are scarred for life? They have already, in their minds, crossed the boundaries of morality. They are, like Macbeth, “yet but young in deed”. But the tests will be refined, the results analysed, the methods perfected, the messages sharpened. And then the deeds can follow."

Let us protect our freedom with all our democratic power, and continue to be brave with everything we must face.”


#1720

This is the most startling and depressing thing I’ve read in this thread. It has really made me rethink my assessment of current affairs as hopelessly optimistic and naive. A few people said it upthread, but I must try and find ways to engage in opposing / resisting what is happening. Been either navel gazing or philosophising for too long.


#1721

not sure what to make of this article. much of the stuff he says is the far-right floating trial balloons was happening way before trump.


#1722

I don’t think anyone can say any of those are examples of rigging. I think he’s just drawing an arbitrary line of objection when it crossed from old media into social media.

The rest of it is fine, I guess, but he’s weak on the active complicity and appeasement of those who have allowed the overton window to be dragged right, and seems to put it down to naivety, which itself is very naive.


#1723

Marckee loves an overton window.