Separating the art from the artist (SSP and trigger warning)

Social
26

Oh man!

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I’m not sure that’s entirely fair – in some cases it might well be that, but I think it’s as much a position for people who don’t know what to do with these uncomfortable truths.

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People tend to neatly gloss over the people who’s art they actually really love - yer Bowie’s, Iggy, Lou Reed, etc etc.
There’s probably very few artists in all forms of media out there who haven’t been awful in some way or another (which is depressing in and of itself)

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I think those are two sides of the same coin in the end? IDK, i know it’s a complicated moral issue, hence the thread!

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There was an article on this in the guardian the other day. The article itself wasn’t particularly insightful, but I think this pretty succinctly covers some of the main issues:

  • When it comes to moral transgressions, is it possible to separate the artist from the art; and should we try?
  • Does it depend on how extreme the ethical boundaries breached are (rape, murder?) or is it the quality of the art that matters, or how closely connected with a particular work the transgressor might be?
  • Do we allow for archaic bad behaviour, mitigate for different times?
  • If we cease to allow artists to continue working after exposure, should we also stop appreciating their oeuvre?

Ultimately, there’s no black and white answers. I think that there’s an issue in monetarily supporting a living artist who unrepentantly committed behaviour that you deem morally reprehensible. But beyond that, it appears subjective, like the art itself, because it depends on the context that you yourself give it

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Yeah - I guess my issue is that this thread is an example of engaging with uncomfortable truths, but for me ‘engaging with’ does encompass that struggle. I think we’re probably saying the same thing really, but I’m not sure about the insinuation that it’s sidestepping the issue.

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Been thinking about this lately, and it seems like it’s always men who get to have their art and actions separated. Not really sure what that means about the whole idea though

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Think it depends on the level of engagement really - littlebirds hit the nail on the head when he said it depends how much it effects your real life conduct especially in supporting current musicians and stuff.
Most of the indielad gigs in London are a fucking cesspit of creeps so I’d imagine not a lot atm tbh tbf

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FTFY

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No I didn’t, I really broke it

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36

think you can only judge it on a case by case basis. the stuff about louis ck seems quite dodgy but then the main person whose allegations seemed to kick off this whole thing has withdrawn them in no uncertain terms so i’m giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. i found michael gira’s response to the rape allegation to be deeply troublesome and haven’t gone back to swans since.

then again, i own albums by a racist idiot who was convicted of murder, so…

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Yeah, I’m pretty ignorant about what most artists have got up to outside of their work, and I’m kindof happy with that as it means I don’t have to have many moral dilemmas, that’s not a particularly noble way of dealing with the issue, but there you go.

I suspect that the awful truth is that a frightening large percentage of people would abuse positions of power if they could, it’s just most people don’t get to those powerful, influential positions.

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See i’ve gone the other way with the Louis CK thing. Haven’t watched a single thing by him since.
No thanks!

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But ‘real life conduct’ encompasses so many different things – I totally agree that there are different levels of engagement but the real issue comes when it’s about where you draw that line, or if there even is a line at all.

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if the rumours turn out to be true and people come forward with allegations against him then i’ll certainly believe them and it’ll be a different story, but for now there’s really only hearsay and to write him off based on that seems extreme.

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Sure, we’re all the problem tbh.

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Ok…so does that apply to all rape/sexual assault allegations?
Why is it different when its a celebrity or someone you’re a fan of?

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yeah it does, it’s not any different for someone i’m a fan of.

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Errrrr so we’re not believing rape or sexual assault allegations now?
Even ones where there may not be/can never be any level of proof?

I’m going to need someone more eloquent and better educated than me to assist with this conversation.

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It’s a grey area but I think especially in an unequal power structure being a “believer” is a really important part of ensuring a culture where people feel safe to come forward in the first place.

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