#153

This is so, so true. I think contradictions are all around us…and unavoidable for all but the most principled people…so when people are completely extricated from a conversation through “hypocrisy” (particularly when it comes to music), it troubles me a bit.

None of us (or at least, all but 99% of us) are perfect, and most times that imperfection is down to our privelege, but I think we should be more inclines to educate ourselves/each other…rather than jump down people’s throats for indiscretions.

#154

Not saying you’re wrong about RTJ (don’t listen to their lyrics closely enough obviously) but what makes you say DiS wouldn’t call out other people in the same way? I’m sure I’ve read plenty of comments about the whiny/poor me/Nice Guy aspects of some emo and some of the misogynistic aspects of hardcore or punk.

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#155

Honestly depends completely, I don’t think someone who listens to Still Ill hates the Chinese as Morrissey thought of, just as I wouldn’t presume a Motorhead fan collected Nazi memorabilia or Swans fans all hated women but if they happen to not engage with progressive politics/try and create less toxic scenes in general they’re jerks anyhow.

#156

To which I’d respond “but what about Nick Cave (or whoever)” :wink:

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#157

Maybe I’ve read it wrong, but I don’t follow this.

#158

Poor @elthamsmateowen :frowning:

:wink:

#159

On the Nazi memorabilia thing, weird anecdote. My granddad was like an oldskool socialist and anti-racist but he had quite a few bits and pieces of Nazi stuff. Helmets, posters, cutlery (they had Nazi cutlery), an authentic Swastika flag his mate gave him from Germany (kept in a box in the loft natch). He had a Jewish mate who was the same. They’d compare their Nazi stuff like we would with Pogs or summat. Think it just fascinated them, like in a collecting trophies from the enemy kind of way (my granddad built tanks to kill Nazis back in the 40s and his mate fought in the war).

#160

My granddad drove tanks during the war!
He did not collect nazi pogs to my knowledge

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#161

Maybe they would be disappointed to know I have not kept the link alive by building you a tank to fight the EDL/Proud Boys.

#162

I really need one too :frowning:

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#163

I’m not saying it’s been done here.

It’s just more a general point that, sometimes, debates about morality and art reduce to castigating others for their choices/taste, rather than spreading information

#164

must be nice to have relatives that didn’t fight for the nazis during ww2. only relative of mine (great uncle) volunteered to go to Stalingrad to fight communists and spent 7 years in a labour camp in the soviet union after.

:frowning:

3 Likes
#166

Mine all stayed in Ireland. Too many memories of parents dying for the British in WWI or imprisoned in Wales for fighting against the British in the War of Independence.

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#167

Blue Division? I’ve read about those soldiers in a few books. Boggles my mind that you’re related to one of them!

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#168

Range of emotions reading that tbh.

…relative of mine (great uncle)…
:hugs:

volunteered to go to Stalingrad
:open_mouth:
:star_struck:

to fight…
:star_struck::star_struck:

…communists…
:thinking:
.
.
:anguished:

…and spent 7 years in a labour camp in the soviet union after.
:grimacing::grimacing::grimacing:

2 Likes
#169

yeah thats the one.

:neutral_face:

#170

I’m saying I’ve seen plenty of artists being called out for shady attitudes or lyrics (obviously plenty haven’t been, also) so I wasn’t sure what made you say that RTJ especially get away with it whereas other artists don’t? Unless I’m misunderstanding something that’s been said so far.

#171

*or escaping to… :wink:

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#172

Ah, I didn’t understand the sentence I quoted, but I think I follow now.

I dunno. Sometimes people should be told to educate themselves, and not to rely on others to do all the heavy lifting. Expecting to be spoonfed information is a mark of privilege, especially if it’s also combined with a dose of tone policing…

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#175

Yeah absolutely, I wouldn’t try to argue this. I’m more thinking of instances where a piece of art may have problematic origin…but it has greater significance to your own life, so you continue to value it highly.