September 2019 politics thread - fuck knows

Gyimah, eh

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Can’t decide whether swinson positioning the lib dems as basically camerons tory party is a stroke of tactical genius* i, or just what she actually wants to do

*for the record I don’t think appealing to cameron fans in 2019 is a very vote-winning move. We’ll see.

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Surely this positioning, together with the fact Labour is now more pro-remain (or at least, perceived to be), will make many voters who had switched likely to switch back.

I dunno, I guess they must have crunched the numbers in the key marginals and cross referenced with the Leave/Remain split

dunno if they have anything to lose anyway, the Tories have painted themselves into a Brexit shaped corner and you can’t really blame her for syphoning from the gas tank

also think it shores up the Labour support with Swinson positioning the Lib Dems well to the right of centre too

we’ll see how it plays out

They, and the Remain press will maintain that they’re part of the moderate centre.

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Hesitant as I am to raise the concept, this fits with the movement of the dreaded Overton window, in that the Tories are ‘on the right’ (increasingly far), Labour are ‘the socialist left’, and so the Lib Dems must be the creamy middle.

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well obviously

and just as obviously, that would be a lie

Ah, Scottish Labour

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Don’t think its possible to be ‘whacked’ by a tennis ball really, is it?

Conked?

Got served

(Nice chill response tweet from Sturgeon though, got to say)

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Politics aside, when you look at how personable and comfortable she is, it really throws into relief just how bad so many politicians are at presenting themselves in a good light.

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Pretty crazy how they’re attracting a load of ‘socially conservative, fiscally liberal’ slugs

It’s useful to think of the LDs as an amorphous blob that take the shape of whatever gap in politics currently exists for them. In Charles Kennedy’s day, Labour’s move to the right saw them campaigning to the left of them on e.g. the Iraq War and immigration. Their coalition with the Tories required them to cast away all cuddly fiscal policies, and so they did with barely a shrug.

Today there is need for a refuge home for diehard Blairites and Tory wets, and so that’s what they’ve become. I agree to a certain extent with ghosthalo in that there’s not much of a grand strategy involved with it, it is pure short term opportunism with little to no thought given to how they’re going to square the circle between their stated social liberalism and a lot of their new MPs’ actual beliefs.

However I do think Sweeney is more cynical than most and I’m not looking forward to her machinations in the event they act as kingmakers in the forthcoming election. She will have noted the farcically easy ride the media have been giving her over welcoming these ghouls into her party, and will be calculating she could probably get away with a confidence-and-supply arrangement with the Tories as well, which would be her ideal outcome.

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‘together with the fact Labour is now more pro-remain (or at least, perceived to be)’

Definitely a perception issue. Depending on which Labour MP is speaking, they’re as ambiguous as ever, hugging the middle ground, trying to appeal to both traditional, working class Labour supporters who voted Brexit and middle class, city dwellers who voted remain, yet are struggling to win over either.

Labour supporters on here may not like the Lib Dems’ approach but you can’t say it’s unambiguous. And that’s what voters, tired of this fucking shit, want. This unambiguous stance will result in them hoovering up both Conservative and Labour remainers, myself included.

It’s unambiguous and will suck in those who lack the perception, or who want for insightful news coverage, to see that it also increases the chances of No Deal.

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Does the fact that many of the MPs now joining the Lib Dems are homophobic, implicity or explicitly racist and happily supported the destructive policies of austerity, as Swaddle did herself, bother you at all? Or the fact the former leader was also an out-and-out homophobe? I ask because you’ve stated that Labour’s anti-semitism is the main reason you won’t vote for them, and whilst I respect that’s a personal issue for you it seems strange to apply that critique and then shrug off the type of people the Lib Dems have shown themselves more than happy to welcome into their ranks.

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I reckon Johnson is gonna lead the UK out of the EU on October 31st anyway, one way or another. What then for Swansong’s Remain position? What then for the Brexit Party? What then for Labour?

Could see Scotland getting independence, maybe within a couple of years. Return to either sectarian divisions or a push for unification (or conflict between both) in Ireland

Leaving hard right Tory rule over England until…?

It’s not been raised much, but the LibDems (and the Greens) also have significant issues with anti-semitism, largely as a holdover from their time as anti-Iraq War parties. Sandown might be turning the parliamentary and donor arm of the party into Cameron’s Tories, but many party members are still those who joined under Kennedy