September Politics and Fucking Things Up Thread

Rugoe state

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in all seriousness, these are the questions I’m asking myself constantly

the new labour leader has shown no appetite for the radical changes that gained so much success in 2017

that 2017 was a success doesn’t mean much if the current leader shows no appetite for it

It’s not nihilistic nor condemning of the UK public personally to recognise that the political climate over decades has normalised policies that keep the homeless suffering, it’s not done out of outright spite (all the time) but it is considered the prudent thing. Corbyn’s policies enjoyed some support but they were fairly common sense social democratic ideas when it came down to it, and it turns out that Brexit and personality won out in a huge sense in the end in large part due to the breakdown of community/the individualistic Thatcherite consumer modular culture that has really gripped our former industrial towns, and the subsequent culture clash that was able to be drawn out of it. Labour/any politicians that wanted to truly help the homeless would need a major norm shift by some very adept structural changes as well as rhetoric, so its not nihilistic to recognise the UK public aren’t in the right shape to vilify how the homeless have been appallingly treated at the moment. And they won’t.

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I don’t think that’s true on a broader level, just that the current Labour party will not be the vehicle for any real left successes in the near to medium future

He was elected by the Membership after pledging to do so. Also the key criticism of Starmer isn’t that he has broken with the ‘Corbynite Consensus’ (or whatever you want to call it) it’s that he hasn’t revealed a substantive policy agenda either way. You can take a view on whether his positioning thus far indicates what he’s going to do (I’m personally on the fence at present) but it’s also fair to say Coronavirus has suspended politics as normal at present. You can of course draw evidence of his radicalness from his policy responses to it (which are fairly middle of the road).

I will continue to wait and see.

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If there is something about this govt that impresses me, it’s the way that even as cynical as I am and even after all they’ve done, they can STILL come out with something that makes my jaw literally drop.

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Homelessness is an interesting one for sure because the increase in it from 2010 onwards was a very tangible consequence of government policy. Everyone saw it. Everyone saw the increase in rough sleeping in towns and city centres over the last decade. It was stark and visible. Everyone knew why it had happened. And yet it doesn’t seem to have made much impact on voting behaviour. And this is in conjunction with many other visible signifiers of a general decay of the public realm. Have to admit to being very surprised by that. Feels like the conditions are being met for a 1997 style Tory rejection by voters, but the landslide payoff at the end does seem far out of reach.

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Kinda feels like the electorates hierarchy of priorities in the last 10 years has been:

Immigration/Brexit>>>> economy >>> housing > health > environment > homelessness and other social issues.

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I don’t know why it’s surprising - a v large number of people think being homeless is only something that happens if you deserve it.

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Thing is, after our conversation earlier I see where @GEOFF’s coming from, but I also feel very strongly that what you’re saying is the overriding feeling that I get from people and that the stats from polls, heartening as they should be, don’t bear out people’s actual attitudes. It’s infuriating, and it’s why I’m so down about the whole thing. I want to believe that people feel like they do in the polls. But I can’t shake feeling that this deserving poor attitude is rampantly prevalent and maybe even in people who poll more humanely. Idfk

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I think I was surprised because of that very reason! Whilst I am optimistic about the public at large, I’m not so naive as to think that dark reasoning isn’t commonplace. Being charitable I’d put it down to shoulder shrugging and a “what can we do?” mentality above active punishment. It’s the job of the left to present an argument that something can be done about it. Or perhaps not directly with homelessness given the above. The reason homelessness shot up post 2010 is because the Labour governments of 1997-2010 were very effective at tackling it (both directly and indirectly) lest we forget.

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Oh the deserving poor vs the undeserving poor attitude is always with us, and always will be. Sadly.

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Ensuring a suitable “other” as a set of people deserving of fear/derision/whatever has been govt policy and media narrative for as long as I can remember.

I don’t know about other countries, but we are global experts on divide and rule. There is no surprise that it is implemented at home so effectively.

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The government of Barbados has announced plans to remove the Queen as Head of State and declare a republic by November 2021
:+1:

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Poor Charles something else he won’t inherit.

The move adds weight to republican movements across the Caribbean, the most prominent being Jamaica, where the country’s four previous Prime Minister’s have declared their support for the idea. St Lucia and St Vincent & The Grenadines are two other countries with a lively republican debate that could be boosted by the move.

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the EU was miles down the list of priorities in polls until the referendum was called 5 years ago, much as that didn’t necessarily seem to be the case

Yeah my gut feeling is that for lots of people the Brexit debate was in part about immigration in the end (not helped by Farage’s pictures of asylum seekers in Turkey (?)). But yeah, that graph over time that showed people’s concerns didn’t feature the EU prominently until 2016 basically. Stupid fucking country.

there’s certainly an argument to be made that the average polled person didn’t think they would see a refurendum on leaving the EU any time soon, because that would be fucking stupid.

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I once worked with a man who was a member of the Young Conservatives and used to regularly bemoan how terrible the Queen was because “she’s lost a lot of territory”. Really feeling for him today.

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