#604

YVETTE

#605

It’s amazing what 60,000 excess deaths and your own MPs not pretending you’re like 1930s Germany in the news every single day can do for an opposition party, isn’t it?

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#606

Still trotting out this line?

1 Like
#607

Why not say a thing that’s true?

#608

I think it’s more that presenting those two things as the only things that were holding Corbyn back from a similar result is a fairly selective interpretation of events.

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#609

Starmer has abandoned Remain too, I guess.

And he looks like the default male politician.

#610

:roll_eyes: ofc

Edit: not that either of those points are wrong. but, again, omit any of the contributing factors that might not reflect so well on Corbyn (purely from an “electability” perspective)

#611

It’s not as if Starmer’s notably improved on Corbyn’s other failings though, is it?

#612

Labour being over 40% is encouraging but Miliband and Corbyn were besting the Tories in polls between elections as well and we all know what happened, especially when the media ramped up the attacks on them. Starmer has barely had to deal with any press hostility yet, and it’ll be ‘he let Savile off the hook’ all the way by 2024

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#613

It’s been impressive to see political journalists completely memoryhole the two years after the 2017GE, when Labour were often holding a lead against the Tories and they were saying that Corbyn should be 20 points ahead.

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#614

To govern is to be reactionary so you have to win on the furthest left ticket possible

#615

I’d say that as morally reprehensible as they are, moves like the abstention on the military bill and other changes in policy/approach have likely made Starmer appear more “reasonable” and “electable” to the centre and centre-right, making him a viable alternative to Johnson for a lot more of them than Corbyn ever was.

Plus, even though it’s been cynical and riddled with hypocrisy I cant deny that he’s successfully given the impression that he’s commited to tackling antisemitism in the party and taming actions against it much more than Corbyn ever did.

Again, these are not morally good developments for the Labour Party. But I’d be extremely surprised if they hadn’t had a significant impact on Starmer’s numbers when combined with the Govt. callous handling of covid. I’m not sure Corbyn would have the same numbers if he were still leader today, and not just because his MPs would still be undermining him.

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#616

This is also very true

#617

The impression is certainly there, but it’s not Big Keith who’s responsible for it.

I don’t agree that the abstention on the military bill makes him appear more reasonable or electable, it’s not like he’s got any love off the press for it. The Tories and at least one tabloid have been able to use it as an attack line that Starmer doesn’t support Our Boys and Starmer doesn’t have any grounds to argue his own corner that they didn’t support it because it was immoral, because you can’t call a bill immoral and then justify whipping against opposing it. If he doesn’t show up to argue with the Tories on a point he doesn’t agree on, he effectively cedes it to them.

@marckee is completely right that any positive impression Starmer has that Corbyn didn’t is down to a far less hostile media and PLP.

#618

I didn’t, and wouldn’t, say that.

There is also the handling of the Covid crisis. Labour haven’t put up any alternative policies or exerted any positive pressure on the government since April, but they’re still benefiting from the poor management by the government - any opposition would, once significant portions of the press started noticing that their lives and the lives of their readers were being negatively affected by government policy.

I’m not going to deny that Corbyn and his progressive, liberal, internationalist policy platform put some people off, or that his inability to magically stop Brexit put others off, or that switching to a pro-second referendum platform alienated people in leave-voting key marginals.

However, yes, if you’re looking for reasons why Starmer has managed to bring Labour to a polling position they last held just over a year ago, then the ceasing of the continuous, hysterical, well-poisoning by members of the PLP and commentariat is the one that has removed the ceiling from the party’s poll numbers.

#619

Thought Gogglebox was very telling yesterday

5 Likes
#620

I think the main thing to take away from this is most people still don’t really know who he is, and people still think Boris is really funny (even now) for some reason

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#621

To a point. Having watched it a fair bit, I would say that the people on gogglebox are probably better informed than most members of the public though - I don’t know how many of their (valid) criticisms are shared by the rest of the country.

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#622

The 3 lads at the end absolutely nail him with the drinking game comment.

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#623

The first gogglebox I ever saw was the bnp party broadcast, it cut to those three in silence, and the old boy went “Well, I’m sold!” And they all started howling with laughter. They’ve been my faves ever since :heart:

15 Likes