#43

Dunno if you’ve pushed the button on the soundproofing yet, but I’m an acoustic consultant and happy to offer some advice. Manufacturer’s data for any “acoustic” product is a bit misleading/confusing, but some of them we have recommended and tested with some success.

Ordinarily for upgrading a separating floor (from above) I would look at a raised acoustic batten floor. Raises the floor heights by about 100mm so isn’t ideal, but very effective as it improves the mass of the floor and builds in some isolation.

The secondary problem might be sound coming up the external wall itself. 100 mm blockwork in cavity masonry flats is very effective at transmitting noise… I once had a complaint from someone in a GF flat who could hear a phone ringing in a 2F flat… noise was pissing down the blockwork. If it’s an older building (?) this is less likely.

This can be addressed by lining the external wall with an independent wall lining (not in contact with the existing wall).

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#44

Our new neighbours are so quiet it is absolute bliss

#45

Happy to help

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#46

thanks, I haven’t sent the final email yet so could still cancel if this proposed solution is rubbish.

I’ve already ruled out products like SoundMat3 and Soundlay, as from what I gather the 43db often quoted includeds the whole floor, plasterboard and mineral wool. like this product

https://flooringwarehousedirect.co.uk/product/product-karma-soundlay-12mm-impact-airborne-noise-reduction-mat/

(says 49db reduction, but turns out to be 7db on its own)

But do you know anything about the Phonestar (sometimes branded as SBx) boards, they claim 36db reduction in isolation

https://www.soundstop.co.uk/ZDBBOARDS.php

they are full of sand so add a lot of mass.

My flat isn’t that old. it is a weird set up, it is an old house with two maisonettes added in the 80s to look the same as the house. Longshot but can you tell anything from how it looks:

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(top left)

I doubt I could afford a raised floor system, this SBx plus two layers of techsound50 is about my budget, but would be interested to know if you think that won’t work

thanks for your help

#47

when I place my ear on the walls I can hear the sound more clearly but when I move my ear away it doesn’t feel like sound is coming off the walls if that makes sense, feels like it is coming from underneath

#48

The Phonestar literature is similarly misleading. Firstly, the 36 dB (or 32 dB with the - 4 Ctr bass correction) is a laboratory score (Rw) for the board in isolation. 18 kg/m2 is very dense, but when added to an existing floor I would not expect more than 2-3 dB overall improvement.

Their test data compares before and after floor test results and state a 19 dB improvement, but it’s not a fair comparison as they also add in resilient bars to the underlying plasterboard ceiling (which obviously you’re not in a position to do). I think even with the Tecsound membrane you will not get the required isolation.

As a halfway house if you can’t do a raised floor, I would look at Monarfloor Deck 22 - http://www.monarfloor.co.uk/products/traditonal-floating-floor-treatments/monarfloor-deck-22.aspx

This has more mass than the Phonestar board, and a bonded resilient layer, but I still wouldn’t expect miracles from it.

With regard to the external wall, from the photo I don’t see any header courses in the brickwork.

common

This suggests cavity masonry construction with either brick or block inner leaf (the 80’s extensions will certainly be cavity construction), but from your description this is only a secondary sound path.

It’s always a gamble to upgrade a timber floor without also treating the external walls, but I guess this comes down to cost and space limitations. The Building Regs does provide a simple external wall upgrade (below) using standard building materials (timber, standard plasterboard, mineral wool) in case you want to price it up.

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#49

We’re getting into some serious “springs over substance” stuff here.

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#50

Believe it or not this is actually less boring than what I should be getting on with right now.

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#51

thanks for taking the time to write this very detailed response, I will look into the Monarfloor system, I think with the wall I will take the gamble and maybe do something about that later if it is a problem, thanks again

#52

I don’t have a soundproofing issue but am enjoying this content.

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#53

Really enjoying this detail I must say.

#54

the people I was about to book with also do monadeck so I have asked for a quote on that too, thanks again

#55

No worries man, best of luck with it!

Single most important thing to note if you go with Monarfloor (or anything else with a resilient layer) is to make sure you don’t screw it down/screw through it. The screws bridge the resilient layer and completely bypass it. The amount of builders who fuck this up on site is astonishing :grinning:

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#56

I wish I could soundproof my garden

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#57

Can I ask a follow up, I’m starting to get nervous tge external wall is a weak spot, jovial lads downstairs were particularly rowdy so I put my ear to the wall and really could hear them crystal clear, when I decouple my ear it does seem like it’s coming from below but fear once I have the floor done maybe the wall will become more noticeable. I’ve seen there is some thick latex wallpaper you can get, seems cheap, do you know if that is effective?

#58

Unfortunately I have never come across a simple fix for the external wall issue. Every little helps but I doubt the wallpaper will have a noticeable effect (it will provide no meaningful additional mass or isolation).

The belt and braces solution is the independent wall lining above, but a compromise might be to use an insulated plasterboard such as https://www.british-gypsum.com/products/gyproc-thermaline-pir?tab0=0

Otherwise, I would save your money with the wallpaper, and revisit the external wall if necessary once the flooring is down.

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#60

I know you mentioned that you wanted to avoid talking to them, but is it worth reconsidering this? It could well be that they’re not aware of how much the sound travels and the effect this is having on you, and a simple non-confrontational word with them could work wonders?

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#62

Ah I didn’t realise it was at that level, missed that in the thread :scream:

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#63

I think the sound isolation is so bad that even if they kept things to a more reasonable level it would still be a problem, the problem is two fold poor sound isolation and their inherent rowdiness. I also think there is no way they can’t know, as it must go both ways, when I come back to the flat I can hear them from quite a way off as often their windows will be open it their tv blaring. just think they are inconsiderate people, also they squeeze two cars into their one space that makes it difficult for me to get into my garden, they put up a basketball net right by my window, they lied to my face about how quiet the are

#65

I bought the flat about a year ago and it has since dropped £20,000 in value so I wont be moving anywhere for awhile. Based on the reviews of the soundproofing company im going to use I think it will go some way to improving things, wont ever be perfect, but if it at least takes the edge off and makes me feel like my personal space isn’t overlapping with these jovial lads. it is depressing reading about how little sound proofing can add, but I think because the way it works in a non cumulative way, where the floor is already doing a good job it wont add much but when it isn’t there is more soundproofing potential up for grabs maybe. It is going on an interest free credit card so it is not real money. if it doesnt work I will start to have a word with them, they are definitely in breach of the leasehold, I guess as im a freeholder I could mention that (bit tory though?), obviously would build up to that though and start of more cordial

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