#205

Aye, there was definitely a thread in the debate that suggested we would choose to relax rules for Commonwealth countries over EU ones, because of cultural ties. However, I suspect the unsaid bit is that they probably meant Canada/Australia/New Zealand rather than India/Pakistan and the Carribbean/African nations.

#206

Owen Smith was merely reflecting the general consensus of Labour party members and the majority view of Labour MPs. Quite frankly, Corbyn is out of step with Labour party members and the majority of Labour MPs on the issue of the EU. Heā€™s an old school leftie who doesnā€™t particularly like the EU. Simple as.

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#207

True, the overall emphasis was generally skewed towards Aus/Nz etc. but I remember seeing and reading mention of the opportunity for Indian doctors and engineers to come over to the UK. That under the current system they are unfairly disadvantaged and Brexit would address this. My wider point was just to say it wasnā€™t a targeted Facebook campaign alluded to by Lee above, it was covered on mainstream media. Sure that kind of thing may well have been going on too but I distinctly remember Farage saying it on one of the televised debates. I didnā€™t see anything about it on social media but that maybe a function of what content I see.

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#208

Just to add some other thoughts, was it a calculated move to mention potential opportunities for immigration from the Indian subcontinent on national TV, targeting first and second generation immigrants who may not be on/have limited exposure to social media? Probably.

It has never sat well with me calling leave voters a bunch of racists. Bigots, xenophobes, sure, but racists? Theyā€™ve effectively voted to increase the amount of non white immigration to the UK so how can they be racist.

#209

Yeah. This is the thing. I think I remember it mentioned briefly, but didnā€™t pay much attention. As it sounded like bullshit with the main thrust of the right wing press which simply wants to pull the drawbridge up.

Even if it got some mainstream attention, it could have also been hammered on social media. We now know how much data and how much targeting happened in the US. I certainly wouldnā€™t know about it. Thatā€™s the point.

#211

(a) Either way, you donā€™t criticise your boss in public unless you want to be fired.

(b) Think itā€™s pretty hard to argue there are many votes for Labour to win if they suddenly backed remain.

#212

I donā€™t think itā€™s hard to argue against that point at all.

Labour would walk it in many of the big cities, London especially. The problem with Labour is that, under Corbyn, who has always been historically ambivalent towards the EU, the policy on the EU is muddled. Over 16 million people voted to remain in the EU and I would argue that many of those people would like to back a party that is staunchly remain. Otherwise there is no opposition.

#213

Liberal Democrats polling numbers would argue otherwise

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#214

Like I donā€™t think labour have been particularly clear on brexit but its an absolute minefield in terms of political strategy innit, especially given labours voter base

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#216

Yeah, itā€™s obviously frustrating but Labourā€™s position should probably be just to leave the tories to rip themselves apart as much as possible for the time being, and maybe occasionally looking to nudge proceedings one way or the other.

People seem to be desperate for Labour to throw themselves on the grenade that Cameron pulled the pin from, but in all likelihood that would kill them off in the next election and fail to stop Brexit as it stands anyway.

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#218

Which cities arenā€™t they walking? At the GE last year they won the bulk of the seats in London, Manchester, Liverpool, Tyneside, Cardiff, loads in the West Midlands. They even won some back in Edinburgh and Glasgow from the heavily pro-remain SNP.

But, then, how many of those 16m are Tory or Lib Dem voters who would never ever vote for the rest of Labourā€™s current platform?

Because this is the really important thing - the two main parties are further apart on how our economy is structured, on how Government should be run, on how our public services should be run, on basically most central issues than they have in over thirty years. The general election last year proved in most places these issues matter more than Brexit to most people. Labour still swept Remain heartlands - I live in allegedly the most pro-Remain constituency in the UK, which has a notorious Brexiteer Labour MP and she increased both the number of votes and her % share.

I donā€™t really have an issue with Labour MPs from pro-Remain areas grinding an axe behind the scenes to ensure we get the best possible deal - they need to serve their constituents and thatā€™s fair enough - but they need to keep the long game in their minds if they want to form a Government.

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#219

Iā€™m in favour of sacking anyone who advocates a referendum on anything ever again

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#221

Stuff (lies) like this were specifically used to target (second) generation SE asian communities

a year laterā€¦

proper, vote for me and all your dreams will come true crap

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#222

Labour are expected to ā€˜walk itā€™ in London at the local elections on their current platform.

Re. Smith: he knew what the taking a shadow cabinet post meant regarding shared responsibility and policy line. He canā€™t really be upset when heā€™s sacked for breaking it.

#223

So never mind targeting with Facebook. Just print all the lies. Jesus.

#224

I think many people were arguing that the policy of triangulation, neoliberalism and then austerity targeted at the poorest in society would lead to the country drifting rightwards, and that consequences would result from that. Brexit is one of the results of the policy decisions and political positioning that weā€™ve been seeing in recent decades.

#225

Agreed.

Quite possibly - Iā€™m open minded on some of that.

I still fail to understand what Smith was aiming to achieve though. He had a prime place in the shadow cabinet to agitate for rejecting the Toriesā€™ Brexit when it fails Northern Ireland. Heā€™s given that up in favour of only being able to do what people like Chucka are already doing.

#227

remember how Labour started climbing in the polls as soon as the GE was announced last year? and we definitely said on here that a part of that was probably because the broadcasters had to give Corbyn a more balanced amount of air time? and that people started paying attention and going ā€œwhat heā€™s saying does actually sound goodā€ when they were exposed to the policies?

i think something similar happened with brexit in terms of it moving from one of many vague political topics to being the number 1 issue.

while Farage had been on question time a lot and UKIP in general were widely discussed and polled, for a lot of people (especially those who arenā€™t actually that engaged in politics) they only really started paying attention in the run up to the vote. and what they saw was Cameron saying ā€œeverythingā€™s fine as it isā€ and Boris saying ā€œif we leave iā€™ll buy you a pint and a unicornā€

bloody swing voters

#228
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#229

Enjoyed ā€˜Starmer Primeā€™ :+1: Also, thisā€¦

There is no meaningful vote between no-deal and a deal, no matter how bad that deal is. It is like choosing between a film you donā€™t want to see and being shot in the face. Your decision to go see the film does not mean you are happy with it. It simply means you donā€™t want to get shot in the face.

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