#177

:grinning:Haha, very good.

#178

How could Jeremy “I’ll give the EU 7 out 10” Corbyn do such a thing?!

#179
#180

The only surprise to me is it’s taken all day. Pretty daft of Smith to try and agitate from the front bench unless hed gone off his job. I do take @xylo’s point, but IF the face turn comes, it’s not going to be driven by the shadow cabinet trying to force Corbyn’s hand. I thought Smith of all people should understand that by now.

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Brexit Cancelled (18/2)
#181

I don’t think Kuenssberg is as bad as many others do, but she’s doing herself no favours by giving Cummings a platform to rebut without making clear he admitted to working with CA last year.

Also I started reading his actual blog post. It’s an utter mess. If his crowd are the future elite, we really are fucked.

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#183

Come on Xyles mate, @anon76851889 knows the value of mass appeal. We can trust

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#184

I’m not sure if May realises how badly she will be viewed by history when this shit-show really starts kicking in. She was obsessed with being PM. It seems clinging on at any cost is her gameplan.

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#186

Aye, I’m back to undecided on the matter now. Hence the if.

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#188

sorry if posted already but JFC

#189

Shame he didn’t boot him out of the party

Odious egotist loser

#190

Nice of them to out somebody. Absolute scumbags

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#191

Christ! We’re such a monumentally stupid country.

I find it so weird that so many people aren’t just willing to stand by and watch things get worse, but actively participate in making things shitter. I mean, Brexit is the prime example but things like repeatedly voting for the Tories despite their pushing tax cuts through for the rich, damaging the NHS, cutting benefits, flag-waving ‘our brave boys’ type nationalism etc are all part of it.

I don’t know how it happened but it really does feel like the direction of the country and attitudes overall are becoming less like the more socially responsible European way of thinking and more like the US approach of everyone looking out for their own interests at the expense of everyone else.

Has it always been like this, or is it getting worse? It feels like the latter but maybe we’ve always been a total sack of arseholes with the odd moment of socially responsible clarity.

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#194

I think maybe it’s this isn’t it? And the fact that ground has been ceded to people with shouty, regressive opinions as if they’d then go “Ah brilliant, that’s all we wanted thanks!” Instead of doing what they’ve obviously done and gone “they caved on this demand, so now we want more - on to the next piece of horrible shit!”

#196

I think that those groups have kind of always been there, but that the adoption of triangulation as a political philosophy means that once you start stepping to the right, you always will be doing so, in increments, as you normalise attitudes that would otherwise be seen as unpalatable.

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#198

Many people did, but not those with the platform or the power to make any difference.

#200

One thing struck me, and this is related to the Cambridge Analyitca thread.

A while ago on R4 any questions one of the panel was an woman either born here, or born in India and has made a life here. She voted for Brexit. The reason being, her family and friends in India have a hard time getting the right to come and stay here. Whereas Joe Polish down the road has it easier. So she was lead to believe this is unfair and voting for Brexit would make it ‘even’ and people from India and other places would have a better chance, i.e. it would be fairer.

Two things struck me about this. I can’t remember this argument being used much if at all in the campaign. So maybe she saw very targeted ads on Facebook making promises about this. I wouldn’t get them as it is not something that affects me. Whereas her profile with friends/relatives overseas would be easy to spot.

The second point was this. Sami Chakrabati pointed out the people wanting Brexit will not be standing at border controls welcoming her family with open arms.

It was a real eye-opener.

#201

I remember seeing it mentioned a few times. Farage certainly did during the TV debates, so it was definitely put out there on a national level, not just on Facebook.

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#202

yeah, I mean pretty much up until about… a month before? most people were still very much like “this is never going to happen, it will go away”, especially being in Scotland who obviously underestimating the rest of the country though there was absolutely no chance (if only we had a chance to do something about that :thinking:)

Stupid us for not seeing it coming really

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#203

I wonder sometimes if we’d had proportional representation instead of FPTP then it would have helped defuse some of this or made it worse. Then I think that actually the Tories would just have gone into coalition with UKIP instead of the LIb Dems and we’d probably be just as fucked.

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#204

Yeah I remember hearing that argument, there as a debate on ch4 before the ref featuring BME people and that was a favourite reason for the leave side. I do love it when the white leave voters try and use that argument too and there’s it’s remainers who are racist.

And as you say the get them out crowd aren’t going to be happy about swapping EU migrants for non EU migrants. But we need immigration from somewhere and they won so best get over it.

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