Summer 2018 Brexit Thread

Amazing how people like that think that it’s the well-connected lefties on twitter who are living in a bubble…

EDIT: just realised that ‘well-connected’ has two meanings here. I meant that they are linked in with plurality of thought and absorb multiple news and opinion sources

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Quite. Although…

By my reckoning pretty much everyone’s as bad as each other on this point and the left are no better than the right.

Nicola Sturgeon saying there that 5000 people have joined the SNP since yesterday. Pretty good going that. Looks like the HoC walkout has raised awareness of the issue it intended.

I know they weren’t directly involved, but I wonder if the Greens got a boost. Always mindful that improved democracy (which is what in after, and which, at the present time is only gonna come) via independence needs to be a multi-party thing (and beyond parties, too).

Wza - been meaning to ask. How’s old Richard Leonard getting on North of the Border? Last time I checked there’s been no meaningful movement re: voting intention for ScotLab but could be wrong.

I remember the picture he had before June of last year was much more buoyant. He traded that for this much more somber one during that period, for some reason.

in some ways i agree but the right or at least the wealthy being locked in a bubble of £££ where they smell each others farts and congratulate each other on working so hard and being deserving of their money… is much more of a problem than the bubble the left are in where the outcome they’re aiming for is try to help people who are less fortunate

That isn’t what I was talking about, it was about behavioural proclivity towards engaging with wide ranges of views/news media/whatever.

Ignore this post. The site’s being a bit weird.

Edit: Sorted. Below answer is what I was trying to post.

Nice recent rundown of Scottish polling here:

NB:

(The blog post headlines on that site are knowingly OTT. It’s an in joke. The commentary is rather more considered. I believe he is an SNP member, though, in case you’re looking for full disclosure.)

Last para:

Richard Leonard’s net rating has slipped from -15 to -20. But a majority of respondents still don’t have any view on him (ie. they don’t know who he is).

He’s gotta get heard over Ruth Davidson innit. Not an easy task, all things considered.

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Useful - thanks. Although old Kez never had much trouble getting heard, which was actually the problem in that case.

Fucking hell… Tory vote still going up?! The last 48 hours better make an impact on the next set of polls.

I still don’t think it really stands up, to be honest.

Everyone I know on the left, has actively listened to, offered platforms to, signal-boosted and shared the voices of others with less privilege than them to a far greater degree than those on the right have done, and those in the centre, too.

I’d say that it’s this active seeking out and offering platforms to those without them that has informed much of the political thought of the left, and which has led to its critical and popular rejuvenation over the past few years. It’s a real alternative to the right’s blend of gatekeeping and offering platforms to those with the most privilege.

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I wouldn’t argue with that and, besides, that’s the left’s basic job right?

I was more responding in an (admittedly nebulous) way about engagement with those with opposing political views, for instance, re: bubbles/echo chambers. Like the seemingly growing proportion of my twitter feed which the left is pointing out that anyone who isn’t on what you might call ‘The Corbynite Left’ (liberals, Blairites centrists, Tories etc.) is a fucking idiot. But I appreciate that we were probably talking at crosspurposes somewhat.

I also think that doing that is one of the things that makes someone have views sympathetic to the left.

To be fair, this is rarely done without a solid critique or explanation.

If there’s one thing that twitter has highlighted, it’s that there are many, many people in the commentariat who are still being afforded platforms, but whose opinions and statements are very easily dismantled when open to those who actually know what they are talking about.

Ouch. I kinda liked her. Seemed like a real person. Promoted waaay too high waaay to soon, though. And spoke waaaaaaay too quickly - kept putting herself on the back foot. But, yeah, she inherited the implosion (that hadn’t fully run its course) from Jimbo when the media hadn’t yet fully transferred its attention to Davidson. The handover is complete, now, though. Scottish Labour are firmly third in line - not an easy space to occupy when media-savvy voices like Willie Rennie for the LDs (until it’s time to hand over to Jo Swinson… :weary:) and Patrick Harvie for the Greens are elbows-out alongside ya. And that’s without accounting for being in Corbyn’s shadow, or noting that the Labour party in Scotland doesn’t seem to have gone through the transformations that have been seen down south. A tough gig indeed.

Especially after thinking that they were gonna be the gov that _saved _ the union!

The impact might be that yet more hardline unionists decide that the Tories are best placed to represent them. I just wonder how far that trend will go…? Labour in Scotland don’t seem to be able to communicate a USP in the crowded marketplace that is Scottish politics.

(Moving away from Brexit a little here, I suppose, and getting more into general UK politics thread territory.)

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She was in a pretty shit position in that she only got the leadership as no-one else wanted the spotlight BUT the old-guard still wanted to define party tactics (which, unfortunately, meant doing the same thing again and again and again until near-death). Saying that, folk I know who worked for her said she became an egotistical fucking arsehole of Salmond proportions, despite the fact she achieved nothing. Personally, I thought she was a terrible leader - She came across as condescending in every single speech and seemed oblivious to the fact she was turning people off with constant negativity relative to the SNP’s sunshine and rainbows positivity.

Despite all that, I actually quite like her now! The fall from grace seems to have given her a reality check and she’s become infinitely more measured and effective with it.

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Yeah but… the left doesn’t have a monopoly on ‘knowing what they are talking about’ either. Far from it. And in any case the left always has a frequently advanced fall back argument of either (in the case of Brexit, for instance) “well this wouldn’t have happened if we’d had a genuinely left of centre government” or (in the case of nationalising transport, for instance) “well this will all be better under a genuinely left of centre government”. Because the left (or at least a definition of ‘the left’ for the purposes of this argument) hasn’t been in any meaningful power for the last 40 years at least then hypothetical and simplistic past or future consequences are advanced as “evidence” when all they are is theory.

I mean this isn’t even a criticism of the left per se, but by your definition the people who ‘know what they’re talking about’ all seem to come from a very narrow point on the political spectrum.

I didn’t especially dislike what (little, admittedly) I knew of her. Point was that many others didn’t seem to either, not that Leonard seems much better at least at this early stage of his tenure.

The UK is not going to ‘bomb out’.

Far too much hyperbolic language and histrionics in this debate. Product of the polarising effect, I guess.