His most offensive post yet
I mean lots to unpack here:
Bernie Bros is a specific term I’ve only seen used in Social Media to describe a particular type of Bernie supporter. I mean the key here is in the use of ‘bro’. I’ve certainly seen pro-Hillary types attacking supporters of Bernie wholesale but that’s separate.
The point is there is a huge area of guys who actively class themselves a working class, left-wing but have also have been poisoned by a whole slew of right-wing views on feminism and the like. It’s a weird toxic area, guys who when offered a choice between Hillary and Trump voted Trump and part of that was sexism even if they refused to admit.
But also part of it was the assumption we’re not living in a democracy at all. I mean I’m not saying it’s working well at all, particularly not in the US, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still a democracy. And the point I was making was this is where people go the other way. You say
but we are discussing ridiculous people and that’s the problem. So for them it’s not a working democracy so it’s out into full tinfoil hat fascist capitalism where we have no say.
So yes, we are talking people who’ve had paranoia and politics turned up to a maximum and that breeds something horrendous.
I mean that’s good. I happen to know two as I’ve discovered via the wonders of FB and stuff and what I’d note is that they are both my age or a bit older, which I think makes a difference here. I’m not sure how many learned and well-read guys are getting dragged into this sort of thing who are younger. We are talking about a facet of people who are leftists but think Brexit is a good idea and the demographics show you this seems to be partly a factor of age. Given the average age of people in this site it may just be you don’t have much political interaction with guys of that age?
Mostly I’ve just seen this sort of weirdness when I’ve gone down odd Twitter rabbitholes. It’s a fucking nightmare TBH. You’ll get someone following you on Twitter and liking your leftist posts but when you go into their timeline you start to realise they’re actually not really on the same page as you with a tonne of progressive thinking.
And yeah, I just coined ‘Lexit bros’ as a shorthand for this sort of of misguided leftist but regressive weirdo, frankly.
has anyone here ever suggested that that’s the mo of brocialism? i understood it as meaning materialist white dudes* who think idpol is a spook designed to redirect attention from class politics… that a rising socialist tide would lift all boats without the need for minority liberation movements, and who are often pretty dismissive of pc culture.
obviously it’s exaggerated and used as an attack line by people to the right but i struggle to believe you can hang around on the internet left without bumping into this type.
like, aye, momentum members aren’t likely stalinists but there are a fuckton of stalinists on the internet. seems odd to suggest a much less extreme current of leftism doesn’t exist at all.
*generally, not exclusively, white dudes.
This may be the crucial point. I unfortunately do know plenty of Brexit-supporting, feminism-opposing, angry middle aged men (on an associate basis) but wouldn’t even think of calling them leftist (perhaps that’s how they identify themselves…I don’t know). I guess the closest thing is my dad… ostensibly left wing economically but, whilst he’s not particularly regressive wrt identity politics, he sees it as far less important and has a much more limited knowledge of the subject. Many of his friends are like this too.
Yeah, IME you would know these people are leftists because they are lukewarm fans of Corbyn as being about the very minimum you could hope for from the current political leftwing and in generally being very ant-Tory, and pro socialist stuff. Usually they will be the first break out the ‘mainstream media’ in a way that implies this is an Illuminati-like worldwide conspriacy and tell you about all the ‘alternative’ sources they get their real news from.
My experience of these alt news sites is a lot of them don’t have an About that even gives them a political slant because they want to feel like they have no agenda, they are just reporting the truth. Oh wait, the truth is about how feminists are taking over the world and men are actually the most disadvantaged sex? Interesting…
I feel like these people are found most commonly on the internet. I’ll just stick to DiS for now…
Regrettably they’re all around us.
I think the main thing is that they already have quite a lot of self-awareness about how their views are outlandish, no matter how much they feel they’re ‘THE TRUTH’ so, yes, it’s unlikely you’ll end up in a conversation about this in the work kitchen
Should have just left you to explain tbh
I’ve definitely encountered people who fit this description exactly: one former FB friend of mine, for example, who was constantly posting about Sanders, but also whining about ‘SJWs’ and talking about how great GamerGate was. Really sexist guys who would have voted for Trump over Clinton, and were probably only for Sanders because of weed and college tuition and Danzig memes. (Though the paranoid part of me wonders: could they have been faking being Bernie supporters? That they were always Trumpists, and just trying to cause divisions on the other side?).
Either way, they’re clearly a minority among Sanders supporters, which makes me think that ‘Bernie bros’ is a poor term for them (the sort of term that hits people it isn’t aimed at, potentially making any Sanders supporter feel attacked and therefore cause splits on the Democrat side).
I guess this is really about what we’ve encountered on our travels tbh. I just think their numbers are massively exaggerated.
I dunno, I think they worked out maybe 8-10% of Sanders voters either sat out the election or voted Trump. Say these Trump voting bros made up half of that 10%. That’s an incredibly small number with very little influence in the wider world. The rest of the Sanders lot did their jobs and voted Hillary. Whereas 25% of all Clinton voters switched to McCain in 2008 after she lost the primary to Obama, whom she ran a very nasty and racist campaign against. Something persuaded them to throw their weight behind McCain and Palin instead of a black candidate, and demographically they are a far more influential crowd. I’ve seen a lot of them saying they won’t vote for Bernie or any Sanders adjacent candidates in 2020 if they get the nod. This should be of far greater concern in an era when authoritarian, anti-democratic trends are becoming more normalised and mainstream in the US.
The number of Sanders supporters who didn’t vote for Clinton is small, certainly compared to the fall in turnout between 2012 and 2016.
Regarding the anti-SJW ‘bros’ on the left: as others have said they are numerous, and their belief stems from the idea that issues of class override all other concerns (to the exclusion of intersectionality), that ‘tinkering’ around the edges of neo-liberalism on issues such as language etc is a distraction, and also that the state and corporate america are one and the same. I can see where they are coming from, although I can’t agree with that, and would have thought that they’d have read Chomsky enough to understand why it’s not a zero-sum game.
Don’t recall saying these guys were significant in the election, was just talking about a type of leftist. Not sure why it’s agitating you so much. Sorry.
Hmm, snarkier than I intended, I am just describing a type of person I have encountered. I’m not saying this person is representative of other leftists but that’s how it is.
You did say that there was a ‘huge area of guys’ like that though. Which suggests that you thought that they were significant.
the fuck does this even mean? Why are the comments like “omg so funny and true”
Oh sure, I’m more working out my own thinking on this Bernie Bro thing based on what I’ve seen of it over the last year or so. I’ve just noticed it being used in arguments by mostly white liberals to silence people in favour of redistributive policies and to also, by extension, exclude POC/LGBTQ American socialists from the conversation.
It’s wrong aside from the fact that in Manchester I’ve never encountered anyone that thought we should have had the Brexit referendum in the first fucking place.
Oscar Pistorius makes any attempt to interpret the message of this far more complex