#48

[allegedly]

#49

Yeah and it was totally nuts that they were like “everything from this point to when he was in the car we’d say not guilty” but the phone call in the car was the thing that swung it to guilty?
It was really clear to me that she was so not well in the head and she genuinely thought she was helping him! She thought she was guiding him with love…but then the Glee thing (WTF!) and the wanting the attention from friends after was so weird but still not enough to say she acted in any malicious way. I felt quite sorry for her tbh. That person was right when they said theres no real winners.

#50

justice is such a fucked up thing

#51

I’m guessing the boy’s family can’t go through civil courts?

#52

i had forgotten about the Glee thing! i’ve never seen it but that episode they did when the star of the show died in real life sounds grim as fuck!

#53

Can people be extradited for civil cases?

I’m pretty sure America don’t extradite their citizens anyway.

1 Like
#54

there’s a bit of context to all this, especially with the US, too. I’d be saying the same thing if it was a Russian or Chinese subject by the way, but the US are notable non-signatories of the Rome Statute, which means that they don’t recognise the legitimacy of the International Criminal Court, dealing with things like war crimes, acts of genocide etc.

So notwithstanding the historical context of its foreign policy, regime installations, black-ops etc, there’s a clear mandate of ‘FU’ towards arbitrating these sorts of things within the international community. Think its also relevant that the UK and US are massive buddies, and have been cosying up to each other even more recently. Were it, for example, an Iranian or Russian diplomat that had been detained or whatever, I think there’d be some cause for eyebrow raising simply due to the geopolitical context.

2 Likes
#55

I saw the glee thing and knew IMMEDIATELY where they were going so had to pause it and explain to my bf the story omg too juice

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#57

i guess i wonder what you would do with proper wrong uns if there were no prisons, idk.

i guess also there is the argument that prisons hold no fear for powerful criminals because they can buy their way out of it, but idk what you do with those people if there isn’t even a threat of being taken out of circulation.

#58

How many people are against prisons though?

The case cited is obviously a borderline one, where prison arguably is the wrong option.

I’m against privatised, underfunded. understaffed and dangerous prisons that serve as a plaster over an archaic, failing drugs policy and societal inequality,and spew people back out who are still under-skilled and ill supported, but I’m not against prisons.

I would think the majortity of victims of crime would still be pro prison as well. How do you propose dealing with delights like Richard Huckle? Ideally he doesn’t get murdered in prison like he did yesterday, but he wasn’t exactly a candidate for any form of restorative justice.

#59

“She should have been spared prison because she was a human being and prisons are completely incompatible with human rights”

Nail. Head and all that.

#60

epstein, luciano leggio, etc. like, irredeemable pieces of shit who have no desire to change or reform. i’m sympathetic to abolition for most crimes but what do you do with the proper scumbags.

#61

It won’t be death by dangerous driving. DbDD is a perfectly correct offence as it punishes criminally dangerous behaviour. There is no real suggestion here that her driving was inherently dangerous enough to satisfy the requirements of that offence. She would be charged with death by careless driving. The stupidest, most jurisprudentially lacking, and purely-public-policy-driven offence to ever disgrace the statute books. Where, regardless of mens rea, you can end up doing a pretty a long stretch in the clink, because of an innocent mistake that had devastating consequences.

So actually, while I think it was awful that she ran, she was very well advised.

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#62

Completely. It’s a ridiculous offence with a ludicrously disproportionate type of sentence attached to it. Had she been faced with a community reparation type sentence then I highly doubt she’d have bolted so desperately.

#63

Yep. I’m not sure there is any punishment, prison or otherwise, that helps to reduce the occurrence of careless driving. It needs to be addressed, I don’t know how but making it harder (or even impossible) to drive carelessly would be where to start imo

1 Like
#64

Does driving on the wrong side of the road not class as being inherently dangerous?

#65

Not when there is a perfectly innocent explanation for it.

#66

Is the innocent explanation not:

‘she didn’t give a shit about other people enough to prepare herself for driving in conditions she was completely unfamiliar with’.
? :no_mouth:

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#67

Interesting. If I was driving on the wrong side of the road in another country I’d feel that I’d be driving dangerously.

#68

Not necessarily. People drive in the wrong lane or up a one-way street in the wrong direction fairly often. I expect it’s an honest mistake more often than not giving a shit.

4 Likes