#27

and if you really want to torture yourself about Englandā€™s performance this series -

poor ol Mo Ali - abyssmal!

#28

:grimacing: poor old Joe too

#29

Oh, so Joe Root still managed to average 47. If youā€™d ask me to guess Iā€™d have said a lot lower than that.

Thereā€™s a BBC article thatā€™s getting some stick in the comments for singling out Moeenā€™s poor performance (they gave him the biggest disappointment ā€˜awardā€™) but looking at those stats itā€™s fair enough especially after his man of the series performance vs South Africa. George Dobell said in the latest polite enquiries heā€™s given Moeen 0.5/10 in his England players ratings article (but thinks that will get edited).

#31

Marshall, Garner, Croft, Holding must all be in the ball park? doubt anyone since them is anywhere near

#33

oh yeah, forgot Imran and Waqarā€™s careers crossed

#35

Warne, Clark, McGrath?

#36

probably a bit unfair to single out Ali, just from a stats pov itā€™s pretty glaring

but it was across the list in the performances I think. I mean Broad is a front line new rock bowler - he got 11 wickets in a 5 test series! Average of 48! Only 1 wicket better than Woakes

Then from a batting pov you have two of your top 3, Vince and Stoneman, averaging 25 for the series

But I think it goes back to something I mentioned in one of the earlier threads, there is so much wrapped up in home ground advantage now. England just werenā€™t ready for these conditions, as itā€™s been shown before when Australia travels to England!

I have to say I was very impressed with Malan, I hadnā€™t heard of him before this series, first time Iā€™d seen him play - and I think he had the perfect attitude to playing in Australia

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#37

I meant to say also an interesting stat they showed on the telly here in the last test

There have been only 3 times when 4 bowlers in a team have taken 20 wickets each for a series. this Ashes Australia did it; done it before with McGrath, Warne, Clark and Lee; and the West Indies did it with Ambrose, Walsh, Benjamin and Bishop. All against England

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#38

yeah, it was always true, but feels more exaggerated than ever now - sign of a really good team is one who wins a series away from home. India taken care of today in South Africa - their rise to the top spots of the test rankings was very influenced by the amount of home series I think? Something like 2:1 in favour of home games?

#39

Donā€™t think warnes average was ever that low, just from the length of spells heā€™d bowl in india

#42

I mean there are 4 sub continental teams, and half their matches should be at home anyway, so I guess itā€™s going to happen with scheduling anywayā€¦ but it should deffo be taken into account.

Saw thereā€™s been some criticism (and fair enough) of Englandā€™s bowlers basically being made for English conditions and nothing else. One of Duncan Fletcherā€™s big things was being able to bowl at 90, probably too far the other way tbh (Mahmood etc)

#44

Agree with you about Broad. Dobellā€™s article has now been published and Moeen was indeed given 0.5/10 but he gave Broad 4/10! That is very, very, very, very, very generous.

#45

Broad had a couple of decent spells didnā€™t he? I mean, nothing like enough over the course of the series, but 4 seems fair enough - didnā€™t get particularly hammered around?

Dobell giving Moeen 0.5 is pretty big for George, heā€™s usually his biggest fan. Maybe thatā€™s why heā€™s being so damning.

#46

Yeah, went for less than three an over, thought it was worse than that. Averaging basically one wicket per innings is very poor from one of your senoir bowlers though. If that wicket was Steve Smith for single figures every innings then fair enough but I think it should be more like 2/10. His batting was truly applaing at times as well but I wonā€™t judge him too harshly on that. He seems to have been genuiniley traumatised by being hit in the face that time and is probably doing well just going out there to face 90mph bowlers.

#47

Yeah, his batting is never going to get to that level people thought it might do a few years ago, although he had a couple of useful innings.

Donā€™t think he should get a good mark, and he definitely needs to get more wickets especially with the new ball, but I donā€™t think he was ever in danger of being dropped, even if weā€™d had some more depth. Low run rate could be more to do with the pitches than anything else tbf

#48

I think this is a good idea

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#49

itā€™s a pretty bizarre quota system, but could be worth a look!