The Politics Bar (POST election thread)


#484

this was it:


#485

Now if there’s one thing I do enjoy, it’s Tony Blair intervention day. Seem to be happening more regularly now. Just sit back and watch the internet explode.


#486

It’s pretty obvious that his aim is to get expelled from the party, triggering a split.

I think people are becoming wise to it as well.


#487

And there was I thinking he was just speaking a powerful amount of common sense on Brexit.

What on earth does Blair have to gain from a split in the Labour party?


#488

i think it gets people’s backs up because labour are trying to move into that next phase of development. so even if blair makes sense over brexit he’s still literally a baby killer.


#489

I think you have to take the starting point that Tony Blair is an actual, literal psychopath in the clinical sense of the word, and everything else follows on from there.


#490

But that isn’t true.


#491

I mean you can ham up a cartoon version of what Tony Blair is to make your argument easier if you want but I would advise against it.


#492

Chill out, doctor.


#493

There’s some truth in it, though. His track record shows a man who believes he is always right, divinely inspired even, and will plough ahead with his vision regardless of changing facts. It also shows someone who is cunning and spiteful. Hence he could just make the case that Britain could cease this madness, or at least ameliorate the damage it’s going to do to itself… but he’s got to attack Corbyn at the same time. Because that’s the kind of person he is.


#494

It was his comments on a Corbyn premiership leaving Britain ‘flat on its back’.

As to what he gains: he gets a government closer to his ideology.


#495

don’t want to pile on but, you know, a million dead people. that isn’t a cartoon, that’s what really happened and is still really happening. if he had any shame he’d fuck off forever. let his blood money console him. just stay the fuck out of politics.


#496

Y’see what I don’t understand is whilst those criticisms all hold varying degrees of justification, why a) are they unique to Blair (believing one is always right, being spiteful etc.) and why b) do so few take his arguments sincerely (saying that Brexit + Labour’s tax/spend plans could be economically disastrous is not exactly a controversial view).


#497

Lukewarm take: both can be true. Blair is a terrible human who started a war on false grounds that killed over a hundred thousand people, destabilised an already volatile area and laid the foundations for terror and violence ever since. He knew that there was no reason to invade and still went ahead, and now the world is much worse off. He has paid basically nothing for this himself. Fuck him forever for that.

BUT he’s not actually wrong about Brexit. Stopped clock and all that. Cameron wasn’t wrong either - he made it harder to vote Remain because it meant voting for him! But as wrong as both of those twats are generally, and as unfit for office and all that, they are actually in the right this time. Not that people should listen to them - there are much better people arguing for remain/single market and so on - but in this particular case, they’re not wrong. But still, papers etc should be ignoring them, Blair especially, on principle.


#498

I think it’s inevitable that in the altogether Britain will become a poorer place in a post-Brexit, Corbyn-led future. I further believe that shrinking the economy would be worth it in order to achieve a better measure of social justice. Right now we’re an incredibly wealthy society, but most of us reap barely any benefit from it. I also strongly believe that the alternative that the Tories are hazily formulating - of turning the place into a gigantic Isle of Wight - doesn’t bear thinking about.

Of course optimally we’d Scandinaviate ourselves whilst remaining in the EU and reaping all the benefits thereof. I’d bloody love that. But we can no longer have it, so we have to work with what we’re going to get. I think Private Eye put it best by saying McDonnell’s plans will shrink the pie, but people will be getting bigger slices of it.


#499

Are there? I’d argue that the problem is that despite being so profoundly compromised in the public mind Tony Blair is still the most visible political actor making lucid arguments to redirect brexit.


#500

I think it has more to do with the fact that Blair is one of the few interventionists that still thinks he has a right to try and shape opinions at the very highest levels of government.


#501

Vince Cable and Ken Clarke spring to mind - regardless of what you think of them, they’re clear on Brexit/EU and they’re not war criminals. Not as visible as Blair, though, you’re right. The problem there is papers giving him the time of day


#502

So fewer jobs and a lower tax take? I don’t know how either of those things benefit the very people that the Labour 2017 manifesto is aiming to represent. I mean reducing inequality’s one thing, but if your means of reducing inequality means that simply everyone gets poorer but the richer get poorer harder then… I don’t see how that represents social justice.


#503

Well I personally have no problem with it.

And furthermore - what issue do you take with what Tony Blair has said this weekend on Brexit? As in, the actual content of it?