The Politics Bar (POST election thread)


#524

In my opinion, rather than suggesting, that the EU would be willing to compromise over freedom of movement despite this being something which they’ve stated over and over again they’re not (at this point) interested in doing, he’d be better placed to make the argument for immigration whilst acknowledging the concerns that people have in a similar way to how Corbyn suggested an impact fund to help areas with greater population densities.

Of course I’d actually say he should stay clear altogether given that he’s not a voice the public largely trusts and he has very little real power at this moment in time but if we’re having this conversation…


#525

All fair points. I do find it interesting how on the left FoM is now moving into the accepted realm of ‘things we should politically compromise on’ rather than being an absolute principle which must be upheld.


#526

Bwahahaha still not over the election result huh


#527

And by, ‘force watchdog to act,’ they mean, ‘conclude that there’s no evidence.’


#528

All this has done is reminded me that due to their appalling election showing the Tories are now unable to enact their ridiculous Voter ID plans.

GE2017 - it just keeps on giving.


#529

is he definitely a member still?


#530

Then I don’t think he does get it. Yes immigration was part of it, but I think a larger part is a sense of the left behind - that large swathes of the population see themselves failing to benefit from economic growth while other chunks are doing very well thank you very much. What Blair’s done there is both lump the Brexit vote into a single immigration related box AND dismiss it entirely, all in one - feeding the feeling that the elite don’t give a damn - the exact reason I think a decent proportion of Brexit voters went that way. What’s more, if he was right in his analysis, he’s failed to make the case for increased immigration in terms that would persuade the disaffected.

The thing that really gets me about Blair though, is that he seems to think that by piping up he’s helping the causes he espouses when I don’t see anything but harm. He doesn’t seem to understand how heavy the baggage he carries is.


#531

I don’t know whether he’s still affiliated with the Labour Party, but he’s definitely still a member


#532

My point was a direct response to wwwo’s point about Tony Blair only framing the issue in economic terms, hence why I countered with a “here’s him addressing one of the cultural explanations” etc. I think accusations that he doesn’t “get it” are inaccurate if you actually engage with the entirety of what he’s saying - but he says “Brexit isn’t the answer” and “Jeremy Corbyn’s programme isn’t the answer”. Both reasonable positions but he doesn’t offer the answer either outside of “the brand of politics I represent would still be popular” etc. Maybe he’s misguided on that, we’ll see.

You are right though that him being the messenger is always going to land badly. He is staggeringly unpopular. Although maybe it’s worth sticking up for him on this point - for one, no-one has either the ability or the visibility to skewer Brexit arguments quite like him.


#533

OK

I read that Michael Portillo is no longer a member of the Tories and wondered whether it’s something those that had a career in politics tend to do, you know, leave the party etc.


#534

I… err… just meant that he’s a huge penis tbh :relaxed:


#535

Oh :sweat_smile:


#536

d) make the case for not leaving AND and attempt to build a fairer society with (if need be) more humble returns. Without any input from CallMeTony, thank you TYVM.


#537

The problem with Blair is one of versatility. He is still a very able political commentator but he is also myopic and partisan, and fundamentally self regarding. He is unable to accept his own evolution as a political figure or his party’s so he remains functionally useless for the role he keeps trying to occupy.

If he were in any way able to coordinate with the current party so that is visibility and analysis could be framed as part of a public dialogue, he could be really useful. He could be the outrider who helps the party frame it’s position by giving them a solid media point to kick against when they need to build a narrative, because the press will always publish what he says. Unfortunately I cannot ever imagine him understanding this so he will continue to try and be a ‘positive’ politician, offering his analysis and ideas like a farmer sowing seeds in a field he himself has salted.


#538

Yep. There’s a key problem for Blair in that he’s basically a genius on one particular thing - why Labour kept losing elections in the 1980s. This formed the entire a) ideological and b) behavioural thrust behind his politics, his succession to the Leadership and his governing the country for a decade - “I know what Labour has to do to both get elected and deliver change”.

The problem is as you point out he still views everything through this mindset. So his interventions contain both erudition and arrogance but with a diminishing relevance because it’s almost as if he’s still analysing a past political context without him ever having been a figure in it, if that makes sense? The master of the politics of pragmatism has been defeated by his refusal to acknowledge… himself. Quite funny really.


#539

oh great


#540

they will all get arrested and go to jail


#541

Would love to know how they arrived at this conclusion.


#542

It is very funny, especially, as you say, given the scale and shape of Blair as a character. I do find it pretty tragic too though, partially because New Labour was when I got into politics and partially because the current situation is so precarious and we still need all of Labour to get through it. Obviously the man who mined a political career out of the crater in the middle of Labour was never really going to help unite it but it’s really sad seeing him so far removed from the essential issues. I used to be very hard on people who completely rejected him and New Labour but increasingly he’s reinforcing the divisions himself.


#543

Seems pretty obvious to me Blair couldn’t give two shits about Labour or the UK as a whole and more just doesn’t really like Corbyn because he criticised him over Iraq, and turned out to be right. Highly doubt he’s scared of repercussions or anything because he clearly believes himself to be untouchable, just sort of doesn’t like him so enjoys sticking his oar in.