I sometimes think about putting shows on again, but being an independent promoter is an absolute joke. Everyone gets paid before you do. You will put in hours of work and chances are you will have nothing to pay yourself. Much like record label owners, they are a vital part of what makes it all tick but they are not valued at all.
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And bands playing small enough venues to do a 20+ date tour will be living off beers humous and pitta bread for the duration
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Never made cash from promoting myself, we have a rolling fund for disasters but never seen it as a way to profit. I’m in a very privileged position to be able to do that though.
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was very impressed when Brown Horse from Norwich did their UK/Ireland tour start of the year and hit 22 venues (even if I was away for my local date …)
But I guess at their level and with a first album, it’s all just for the love of the music. Who cares if they make nothing, they get to spend some months touring round with friends, plying their craft, showing off their music to (some of) the world. But I imagine that routine would get real old by album 3 if people are trying to hold down longer term jobs, and if they find a good audience in Brighton every tour but they only get a handful of people showing up in e.g. Luton. Each tour probably shrinking in scope, hitting the same spots where they know they have fans etc.
06 MAR Glasgow – The Hug & Pint
07 MAR Edinburgh – Leith Depot
08 MAR Newcastle – Bobiks
09 MAR Halifax – The Grayston Unity
12 MAR Brighton – The Folklore Rooms
13 MAR Guildford – The Keep
14 MAR Margate – Where Else?
15 MAR London – The Shacklewell Arms
17 MAR Luton – The Bear Club
19 MAR Liverpool – Kazimier Stockroom
20 MAR Sheffield – Sidney & Matilda
21 MAR Birmingham – Hare & Hounds 2
22 MAR Manchester – The Eagle Inn
23 MAR Darwen – Sunbird Records
24 MAR Leeds – Oporto
28 MAR Bristol – The Canteen
29 MAR Newport – Le Pub
30 MAR Worth Matravers – Square & Compass
03 APR Norwich – Voodoo Daddy’s
04 APR Ipswich – The Smokehouse
05 APR High Wycombe – Ramblin’ Roots Revue
02 MAY IE Dublin – Upstairs @ Whelan’s
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What bands can afford to take the time off work to do a 3 week tour?
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This just reminds me of seeing Art Brut recently, Eddie said something like “we’re a cult band… it means we make enough money to keep going, but not enough money to stop”
It made me laugh, anyway.
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it’s a funny line. with considerably less humour I remember Ted Leo kvetching about something similar when things were going tits-up for him inasmuch as the big scything of the record-buying market for music really had a disproportionate effect on middle-sized acts like his and Art Brut etc. ie. bands that might have sold 20000-100000 in the past could have lived on that. there is sadly some truth to the reality that bands in the UK who are pootling around the toilet circuit for years are either independently wealthy (ie. bands like Spring King) or living very frugally or on the breadline (ie. Lawrence from Go Kart Mozart).
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The big difference for me is that in days gone by you could lose money on 2/3 shows and 1/3 shows balanced it all out, and often helped build audience trust and database to make that other 2/3 shows lose less. It could be slow and incremental but you could build a footing in a scene and at least not risk losing money on every show. Much like a few releases on my label subsidised many of the others.
The fact so few shows now break even means grassroot venues (most of whom are the promoter) running at 0.5% profit. Fewer venues are closing but most are close to peril.
my understanding is that even the major labels used to run on this model?
so you got a few megastars who made absolute bank, and then a large number of bands that were able to live quite comfortably for a couple of years while releasing and touring even if they didn’t become wealthy/had to go in to a different career afterwards
whereas now, there’s an even smaller number of people making bank but the mad profits from those acts don’t go in to subsidising everyone else, so they’re on the breadline even if on the surface level their career seems decent
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I’ve noticed gigs in Birmingham dry up in the last year or so; artists who used to play here are now doing the London-Bristol-Manchester triangle, driving through Birmingham without stopping.
I’ve ended up reliant on the festivals to see bands now; Mostly Jazz Funk & Soul, Supersonic and Moseley Folk.
Yes, last couple of times I’ve been to Birmingham it’s been for bigger acts at the arena, medium bands seem to go to Wolverhampton Halls if they do west midlands at all.
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The Anchoress tour played Birmingham last year but the show got a moved a bunch of times and it didn’t seem to get promoted very much. The audience was fine but notable that she played to more people in Hebden Bridge where the show sold out really quickly. 
one of the main promoters in Birmingham, Birmingham Promoters, shut down in 2019 after stopped bothering with mid-sized shows at all. I remember going up to see Deradoorian play at the Rainbow and the show had been merged with one by Sting’s kid. Together the two had an audience, but composed of quite competing demands.
This sort of thing is inevitable with a monetary system with inflation compounding over decades isn’t it? Inflation destroys the quality of things over time and no different with things in music.
Meh one less thing to have to spend money on in a Keynesian society.
I think you would have clapped as hard as I did after Grace Blakeley spoke at the Beyond the Music conference in Manchester last week. Hopefully they put up a clip from it soon.
Probably not, I looked her up briefly and she seems to be a Keynesian saying things like inflation is because of profit/corporations or that capitalism is bad, etc. I do think in fairness our current system of crony capitalism is bad but these sorts of people always try to frame it emotionally like it’s as simple as the rich just exploiting everyone else, which it is but not because of capitalism or profits.
Yeah, I’ve noticed another Birmingham promoter Die Das Der have scaled back massively in 2024 too.
Little bit later in closing, but this is why they did.
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I did actually know this (some inside info) but they were hitting the skids as well.