#5214

Look at the difference in policy and approach between, for example, Blair and Corbyn’s Labour Party. Who is leader clearly matters a great deal.

1 Like
#5215

All my contributions in this thread since the election show I believe there is a far bigger problem for Labour than who to choose as its next leader.

Unless they integrate with communities, groups and those it seeks to help.

How it’s organised in HQ matters for nothing and no one

1 Like
#5217

It’s nihilism but I am yet to convince myself otherwise

#5220

You’re right about connection with disenfranchised groups/communities…however I see this as more of a “necessary backbone” to a Labour movement, rather than a new strategy for rebuilding the party.

One primary issue in this election was getting that message across to those Labour should represent, but did a far better job in 2017. Also, the choice of leader also has a big impact not only on policy but also which groups are targeted to be part of the movement (for example, there are enough reasons to believe many BAME and trans people would feel forgotten under Jess Phillips).

Tl:dr picking a leader isn’t just about choosing a poster person. It’s about the direction of the whole party…which is now in greater focus since Corbyn was elected

2 Likes
#5221

I think it’s right to try and reclaim supporting socialism as a legitimate position to have. Even if you deny it, the right wing media still calls you it (“Red Ed”)

1 Like
#5222

True, Labour’s issue is far more existential than just who is the leader. If they fail to re-connect with their traditional working class base then they will lose election after election after election. They can’t win general elections by appealing predominately to liberal-minded, university educated city dwellers. They desperately need to broaden their appeal.

#5224

Not accusing you of this…but, in Blue Labour circles etc, it’s a pretty clear dog whistle for white working classes.

Anyway, what sort of thing do you think is needed to broaden the appeal of Labour?

3 Likes
#5225

Totally agree actually, it’s a fudged position isn’t it.

1 Like
#5227

Although I guess the manifesto is still mainly centre left :man_shrugging:. Its just most of us want MORE

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#5228

Lol. Accuse him of this tbh.

#5229

Enjoyable thinking about the internet bougie losers moaning about the Labour Party being the HARD LEFT cause they want to not have to feed their students with their own wages and then talking to those teachers in real life in ways they those idiots will never do cause they’re hoping to get a column somewhere. Bellends.

1 Like
#5230

The working class vote is not exclusively white, of course, but it is predominately white because we live in a predominately white country. This isn’t a race issue though, and I don’t think it’s helpful to get preoccupied with that.

The only way that Labour is going to be a realistic choice for many voters at the ballot box in future General Elections is to regain the center-left ground. I know that’s anathema to many people on here, but the reality is that for many of Labour’s traditional working class voters the party has gone too far left of center, allowing the Conservatives to occupy the center ground.

Because of Momentum’s influence, however, I’m not sure if their members would want to even contemplate that. Unfortunately, until this existential issue is confronted Labour will not win another General Election for the foreseeable future.

1 Like
#5231

:thinking:

This is the most right-wing Conservative Govt since probably before WWII

19 Likes
#5232

And it’s presiding over the single largest legislative change in legal rights of a settled population in Europe since WWII - and everything adjacent to that.

It’s imperative for anyone & everyone (and especially on the left) to understand just who are the most vulnerable groups in this situation and protect their equal rights. As such, race is very definitely a part of this equation

6 Likes
#5233

Which of Labour’s policies was so unpopular with traditional working class heartland oriented voters though?

2 Likes
#5234

No, but unfortunately the conversation about reconnecting with the white working class is often shorthand for “legitimate concerns about immigration” etc. The left is, admittedly, losing this argument in many of its former
heartlands. That doesn’t mean we should reconsider or give in (but rather, consider why such arguments take hold and prosper).

You’ve probably read in this thread many posts about the popularity of Labour’s policy when they are presented to people without the party context. They are also predominantly centre left policies; increasing public ownership and workers rights, but still very far from tearing down business/capitalist institutions.

Unfortunately for the moderates, those on the “left” take as much heart from 2017 as we do disappointment from the other week. There are still many reasons to believe there is a market for this kind of politics.

7 Likes
#5235

Man, you made pretty much the exact same post five days ago and didn’t bother engaging with the people reasonably disagreeing with your lazy James O’Brien ass talk points then. What’s the point mate.

11 Likes
#5236

this just in, racism only democratically electable policy

6 Likes
#5237

caveat. It has the correct racism.

#5238

I think it was fairly regularly pointed out how not-really-hard-left the platform was compared to various other European countries. For all the talk of socialism and vocal pride in jumping to the left I never felt, nor got the feeling from others involved that they felt we were offering a hard left option.