The video to Ava Adore


I will admit to really enjoying watching that Here is No Why video.


Well said

Although it makes perfect sense for me to see these three bands discussed together as they were all US bands that failed (probably thanks to inward gazing Britpop) to really get a big impact in UK culture while at the same time I tended to find fans of one would be fans of the other too (or at least receptive too). All three represent (IMO) sides of a certain Indie/Alternative aesthetic which I’d describe as bands most people had to listen to get into. Corgan’s voice was the big blocker for most people, while SY’s experimental aspects tended to push a lot away. And Pavement were just so damn ramshackle on first listen… :smiley:

Another thing they had in common in the mid 90s was how often the mostly cleared the dance floor in a mainstream Indie club. Probably CD pricing had a lot to do with it as you were looking at £12 for an album by a britpop band on first week of release but sometimes £16 for US bands. I seem to recall Garbage being an exception and that’s one of the reasons I bothered to get their first album.


Kim Gordon started it!


I used to hate that song first time round, mainly for the cheesy opening riff, now I love it, the soup of guitar effects that kick in on the chorus and it has this weird tranquil momentum


My first exposure to them was borrowing my mates copy of Melon Collie, it was that second disc that really got me, had a box of riches thing going for it. I’ve always found Siamese Dream a bit bland in comparison


Yeah the effects in the chorus are what really elevates it although it’s ripped hook line and sinker from New Order (lovingly so though as Corgan’s a massive New Order mark as he then appeared on Get Ready the year after)

Fair enough, they’re very different records to be fair, I just feel Siamese Dream is probably the best place to start as it’s condensed into one record and has a couple of their biggest singles on it. Obviously though if you were just getting into them I’d say just do Siamese to Adore in sequence and see what sticks


yeah OK, I get that connection between them, but it’s still pretty loose! All those bands did eventually make their impact in the UK, I feel that has a lot to do with mtv2/Kerrang actually


They were brought up for a specific reason though, Kim Gordon criticised them for not being ‘punk’ (don’t think they’ve ever claimed to be’) and pavement/pumpkins historic beef, relevant to the discussion of how little indie credibility the pumpkins had


oh ok I must have missed that. Agree Pumpkins have nothing to do with punk so that’s a bit of a redundant observation. I know about the personal beeves but I mean, sonically there’s nothing really there to compare, I guess that’s why I’m surprised.


Yeah when Britpop died and major labels went down we saw a better appreciation of music. It’s good.

You’re right that there’s nothing very concrete to join them, I was just trying to explain how they had a commonality for one period I guess.


Yeah, hard to dress this up as anything other than a disaster. If they haven’t managed to sell a majority of seats in the opening weekend of sales, then they’re relying on fair-weather fans to make up the numbers. And that’s not going to happen if the $100+ prices are correct.


Quite looking forward to seeing them at Hyde Park for £1


I saw them on the Nottingham Arena date of their original “reunion” tour and while standing appeared to be sold out, most of the seats were empty. After a few old songs they played a couple of new ones and Billy got annoyed that people weren’t singing along to anything off Zeitgeist, then after playing for just under an hour they stormed off. I can’t really understand why he’d think things would be different this time.


If I’m remembering things I’ve read fairly recently, correctly, Billy Corgan once came out to and said, Hello, we’re Stiltskin, but that was the other way round, assuming JDB wasn’t suggesting that SP ripped off early MSP


All the blue are free seats? Ouch


It was NEVER gonna sell well though. They’ve been touring fairly consistently for years. The only way this would have been a big draw, would be if they hadn’t released a bunch of middling, watered down albums since their initial split. Can you imagine if they split for good, stuck out Rotten Apples, then announced a tour playing a collection of their best presented with a carnival/Georges Méliès stage set up. Be amazing.


Listening to Siamese Dream from start to finish for the first time, as far as I can remember. It’s pretty fucking great isn’t it? Who’d have thought it.


Never have been able to get on with his voice, ranges from decent to song-ruining. Not sure there’s another band I like this much (quite a lot) with a singer I dislike this much (quite a lot).


I have no idea why more bands haven’t copied this style, there’s nothing like fast paced music that suddenly explodes into an atmospheric wall. I love that contrast between the ugliness+tension of the verse and the melodic, dreamlike nature of the chorus.

Jimmy’s drumming at the end is absolutely nuts too, and it’s so buried in the noise that it’s easy to overlook.


would make a cracking set-opener for a comeback tour…