The video to Ava Adore


Pavement have a lot to answer for


The end run on Adore is excellent…Shame/Behold/For Martha/Blank Page…maybe give that 4 song stretch a go!!!


machina art work was so good


Used to watch this over and over on VHS…


great e-bow work from james


Agree x1000. It was basically a second Mellon Collie-esque period where amazing songs were just pouring out of him nonstop.

The most frustrating thing for me (in my experience at least) is that the most vocal Machina bashers I know have never listened to Machina. You have no idea how many times I’ve gotten things like “You have to admit, Machina was horrible” or “Pfff, Machina? You’re actually going to defend that one?” and then as the discussion continues it’s revealed they never even listened once. And then they still insist it’s terrible! I hate that whole “I’m not experienced with _______ and that gives me more of a right to make declarations about it than someone who is very familiar with it because they’re biased.” It’s one of those mechanisms that got us Trump.

Basically what I’m saying is that our collective failure to appreciate Machina is what got us Trump.


I’m also thinking Adore might be the one to try for you. It’s really a beautiful album.


I’m not sure if it’s possible to agree with something any more than this. That’s my favorite sequence in all of music.


such a fucking banger that, quietly one of their best songs


i realised yesterday I’ve never listened to Machina II


Love how they needed three drummers to replace Jimmy


vanity, slow dawn, home, and dross are all prime pumpkins. machina acoustic demos are well worth checking out too


Oh wow, I’m jealous, I wish I could discover a prime Pumpkins album in 2018. This is going to come as a shock, but I think it’s fantastic! I was about to start listing highlights and realized I’d be posting almost the full tracklist.

I’m going to be computer-less in a half hour or so for a couple days possibly, so I’ll just say for now that

  • Home” is pretty much the consensus highlight from what I’ve gathered, and I don’t disagree. It’s pure Corgan magic.
  • A very, very underrated moment is the build and release in “Saturnine
  • Hearing the “Slow Dawn” solo for the first time might have been the highlight of my college experience for me, take that however you will.
  • Jimmy puts on an absolute clinic - I’m forgetting which one right now, but one of the "Cash Car Star"s in particular is nuts, and “Lucky 13” is classic.
  • Fuck the enemy
  • The MII version of “Here’s to the Atom Bomb” is a subtle masterpiece.


Oh wow, you got into them late! How did everyone else discover them?

Aside from a few cassette tapes (U2, Counting Crows, Blues Traveler, Live), I barely had any knowledge of or interest in modern music. Naturally I was given a few gift certificates to a record store by relatives who kindly but falsely assumed I had a life outside of doing homework, and one morning shortly after my mom suggested using one on the band that was being played on MTV. It was the “Bullet with Butterfly Wings” video, and for some reason I was immediately drawn in by the tension, the heavy guitars, the energy in the drums - but especially by this very tiny, very angry man’s unique voice (it took about a year to realize that Billy Corgan is, in fact, not a very tiny man whatsoever - I still don’t know why I thought that). I went to the store, saw it cost $20, and promptly bought Bush’s Sixteen Stone instead (I was even detrimentally cheap as a child).

A few months later I caved, used two gift cards on Mellon Collie, and realized immediately I had unlocked a whole new world. Within a day or two they were my new favorite band. They’ve never lost the spot and I appreciate them and that album more every year.


Ha nice story. I didn’t get heavily into alternative music until I was about 15. I was very into playing with vinyl records as a kid as I’d been given a box of my neighbors 80s pop singles and LPs and i had a player in my room. But aside from nu metal era when I was 10 which I loved, it was ages until I heard stuff like this.


Despite all the nonsense I do hope this tour is actually well received and they do some EU festivals next year… I think a ‘best of’ set full of classics would go down really well.


That sounds like me (minus the nu-metal, some of which - Staind, Incubus, etc. - I inexplicably got into for a little bit late in college) - I used to carry around a box of vinyl records in each hand when I was little, but for some reason didn’t start getting into alternative music until 8th and 9th grade. I’ll never forget the first time I heard “Fuck You” and “Tales of a Scorched Earth”, there was no going back after that.


I have to say, for an unreleased song only played live during a so-called failed reunion, “As Rome Burns” is an absolute monster. I’m not sure if I can think of a song released by any other band since that has such a combination of heaviness and unbridled energy.

Sometimes I wonder if Zeitgeist would have been better received if it had been on there over “Doomsday Clock” and released as the first or second single.


As Rome Burns on Zeitgiest would still SOUND like it was on Zeitgiest. In other words thin and completely lacking in presence and clarity. I’ve said many times the problem with that album really wasn’t the music at all bt how lifeless and awful it sounds.


think the music not being up to it is the main thing, can look past bad production (machina 2 is really rough but still great)


‘eight new songs—including “Alienation,” “Marchin’ On,” and “Seek and You Shall Destroy”’

“Seek and You Shall Destroy” :rofl: