The video to Ava Adore


#141

Hey I listened to Adore for the first time in forever yesterday morning. Hell of a record.

Weird watching those videos right at the top of Young Billy. Such a nice looking man compared to the turd he’s become recently.


#142

Two listens in now. Definitely going to need many more than that, but there are some really encouraging signs and I’m excited to keep going with it. He sounds like he cares and while I haven’t dug into the lyrics yet, they’re obviously way better than Monuments. Some of the melodies are really good. One song has a bit that kind of reminds me of the ending sequence of “Raspberry Cane” by Youth Lagoon (an A+ song in my book), and another one if I’m remembering correctly has a similarity to “Soot and Stars” and has this descending piano bit that he might have subconsciously pulled from the “Hummer” outro.

But most exciting of all, he found the magic again with “Archer”. Not only is the melody great but there’s this tension and urgency in it that I haven’t heard in awhile. It feels like it’s something that came out of him very naturally, like it had to happen, rather than “I’m going to sit down and write a song now” if that makes sense.


#143

Oh yeah, did you get to ask him about Infowars?


#144

No, I don’t think I would ever be able to actually do something like that. It did seem like someone was going to go there, there was a nervous guy who spent ages trying to spit out his question he said something like

“I’ve spent all day trying to think of a way to ask this and I am not sure if I should, but what are your thoughts on what is going on in America right now?”

Corgan responded that it was not really the right forum to get into something as complex as that. The guy then followed up with something like:

"What I am trying to ask is there any meaningful way to oppose the “new world order” "

Took me by surprise that the questioner was coming at it from the complete opposite direction that I thought

Corgan took it in his stride and said something like:

“Which new world order, the wrestling company?”

He then went on to say he will try and address it, and that you will see a lot of things in the mainstream media but that it is not really like that, that he sees a lot of things in the media about how things are in the UK and now he is over here it is completely different, and suggested people do there own research, use multiple sources, and speak to people.

So yeah, nothing too inflammatory, but I do regret not trying to ask about it as there was a perfect opportunity after all that, and think I could have asked it in a respectful way if I started of by saying I agree that there are problems with the media, but that are alternative sources such as infowars to be trusted and then cited a couple of there outright fabrications.

But yeah, quite like the album, it has three or four strong songs on it and the others might grow on me, it has a slight machina acoustic demos vibe which I love, and the film had a very mellon collie aesthetic, he really seems to have embraced his pumpkins past by the way he is talking (genuinely never seen him so positive)


#145

Yeah, there’s no way I ever could have asked that (or honestly, anything). That’s really encouraging and great to hear that he seems to be in a much more positive, less bitter state right now. To me that’s kind of a small miracle given how horribly the media and casual fans (and even a lot of longterm fans) treat him and force whatever he says to fit their caricature of him. I’m not sure how the reunion is going to be received, but I’m genuinely excited for it and think it’s going to be legitimately great.


#146

I’m amazed that you’re able to describe one of the greatest song writers of the 90s, as a ‘turd’.

+2mill indie points.


#147

You ok pal?


#148

You’re amazed that two things that aren’t related aren’t, in fact, related?


#149

Okay pal, just to remind you that you were using ‘being nice looking’ and ‘a turd’ as Units of comparison.


#150

Here’s a fantastic interview with him:

http://www.musicweek.com/talent/read/i-needed-to-make-peace-with-my-past-billy-corgan-the-music-week-interview/070132


#151

The album is… eh

Strumming guitar, billy corgan strings… all standard really


#152

he is so completely obsessed with his own critical acclaim and importance, he must be absolutely unbearable to be around


#153

I think it’s understandable though, given his childhood and how unfairly he’s been treated by critics and fans along the way.


#154

sounds like you’ve been drinking the corgan kool-aid, friend!


#155

I reckon if I had written siamese dream and mellon collie and the wealth of other material around that period I would be cheesed off by the lack of acclaim, they never really got credit for being the most ambitious and prolific band of their peers at the time, I remember even kerrang portrayed them as a very uncool band. Should be at least regarded as a radiohead level act in my opinion.

having said that, yeah he is definitely too concerned with weird metrics of success, like he always goes on about fans leaving him because of Adore. I wonder what he really expected, they picked up a load of fans of the back of heavy MTV and radio play, did he really think they would all follow him down his bleak electro piano dirges, it still sold lots of copies, sold out tours, and is well regarded amongst hardcore fans, but he is more concerned with the causual ‘rat in a cage’ enthusiasts he lost, also annoying as he will stress that they were a band that would take risks by releasing an album like mellon collie but doesn’t seem to accept sometimes taking risks will not work out well.

Also don’t like his line that people don’t get that he was trying to do new things with pumpkins mk2, just doesn’t seem true, I think people would have loved it if they did new things and they were good, they just weren’t that good, and they also weren’t that new, oceania especially you can almost hear the bits of other songs


#156

good interview, I really hope the bridge building and hints of a reunion actually come to something and it wasn’t just a marketing strategy so he could talk about this stuff to promote this album


#157

he was in a massive band that completely dominated MTV and were a huge part of defining the whole era. any complaints about not getting his due come as completely absurd and navel-gazing

never known or met a single one of these


#158

yeah in terms of sales, airplay don’t think he has anything to complain about, but don’t think they were ever a ‘respected’ band in terms of music critics, and other bands (like those videos of lollapalooza, nick cave, beastie boys really come across as dicks to him, the whole pavement thing too, even soundgarden mocked him, maybe they were all just reacting to his personality). For me they were easily the strongest band of the era and yet they don’t really get much acclaim or have much of a legacy, no doubt a lot of that is down to Corgan himself, but I do think there is something in that he personally was not considered ‘cool’ or something they didn’t have the detached slacker attitude or something.

As for the ‘rat in a cage’ enthusiasts, me neither, but over here they were only big in ‘alternative’ circles, the album sales in america were huge they would have been like an Oasis level act with lots of mainstream fans who got into them via the singles. I just meant I think it is weird for him to have expected those fans didn’t follow him on his minor key piano path


#159

Haha, I have been, I’m admittedly a massive fan and legitimately think he’s an all-time singular talent and that no one else has ever written so much incredible music. Far and away better than his peers and predecessors, but you’ll never hear his name mentioned in the same breath as Lennon / McCartney or even Radiohead / Kurt Cobain (and when you do hear his name with the latter two, it’s almost always a negative comparison).

My feelings aside though, I can understand how frustrating it must feel to have written so much ambitious, unique, era-defining music and to have reached such heights of popularity, only to have critics not give you proper due / flat out dismiss you / turn on you in an instant, and to have a pretty substantial portion of your fanbase view you as a “just shut up and play the hits and play them as they are on the album” act*.

*And that’s before getting to the fact that many people think James Iha wrote all of the music and played all of the guitar, and think Billy is just some singer with a nasally voice (and I know I’ve read critics saying stuff like this too). It must be maddening.


#160

I am going to rectify that by saying Corgan has written better songs that Lennon, McCartney, Yorke and Cobain