This John Lewis business, then


#1

I don’t see the fuss. Nobody’s forcing you to shop there and they’re not forcing your son to wear a dress or draw a moustache on your daughter.

Having said that, I’m convinced moves like this aren’t done to help their audience or be socially progressive, but because they want to provoke people on social media. 10 years or so the motives were pure, but they’ve been contaminated with the “banter” and “lame meme joke” clickbait culture now. Five minutes of attention seeking; nothing solved; no intelligent debate; next please!

It’s all part of the New British Snobbery that began with Blair coming to power and peaked with Brexit: instead of the Tory way of insulting the working classes’ dress, food, or accents, the left/liberal middle class looks down on the working class by viewing them all as bigots.

And they make these moves not because they want to help kids with gender dysphoria, help more female (or LGBT, black, Asian etc. characters) be represented on TV, or help people from different cultures feel welcome at food outlets by helping meet their dietary requirements (i.e. Subway and halal), but because they want to stir things up and have a sense of “New Snobbery” superiority.

You can imagine the John Lewis execs on their foie gras lunch break: “Hey! Let’s see what Gary, a 37-year-old welder from Scunthorpe thinks! He’ll say something angry with poor spelling! CANT BOYS BE BOYS OR GIRLS BE GIRLS IF DEY WONT TOO. Ha ha ha! Yes, I mean I’ve been a socialist all my life, I used to send money to the miners’ strike in 1984 but since 1997 and Tony Blair freed us all with people carriers and more than three types of pasta none of the country matters now apart from London, and parts of cities where people I agree with live! Who could afford to go to university! I mean, I’m SOOOOOOO progressive and have friends from all cultures and orientations, as long as you can pay a few grand for the privilege!” It’s no surprise quite a few people on this forum I don’t get on with have that mentality.

Yes, some people upset by this have transphobic, sexist and far-right views, believing everything they read in the Daily Mail, but there’s plenty who are just everyday people who want to do everyday things like buy food, clothes or watch a TV series they like and not have it aggressively politicised from people who don’t give a crap about people from ‘unfashionable’ backgrounds. I call it left-wing dog whistling, in fact, champagne socialist dog-whistling.

Now there’s a lot of jokes going round i.e. “Yer da’ thinks [x ill informed reactionary opinion]” or “X who thinks [Ill informed reactionary opinion] voted Brexit.” Some of the former ARE very funny, and though I voted Leave (50% to weaken Cameron, 50% to piss off hipsters, 0% about immigration, would now be Remain), I’m lucky to have friends who allow me to pick and mix their opinions rather than divide into simple “red/blue, good/evil” teams.

However, by this constant caricaturing, and constant obsessions with playground insults that don’t go anywhere a la “You’ve dropped your Brexiter card!”, you are never going to get people to come round and change their minds. They’ve been shat on enough by successive governments, whether Tory or (New) Labour, and one reason Corbyn’s lasted as Labour leader despite the constant coups is his unbroken will not to talk down to anyone, even if they are Gary from Scunthorpe with slightly dubious views about immigration. Don’t shout at the problem, ask WHY it occurs, why people think such things, who MADE them think such things, and how this problem can be solved. Stop stabbing people in the back. Start investing in people’s potential. Start embracing. Start loving. Do you really want families to be torn apart over a vote? This is the only way our country can move forward after 23 June, 2016. (Hardly breaking news, but the blow-raspberries-rather-than-talk approach is also how Hillary lost on 9 November, 2016.)

P.S. “Congolesa Rice” on Twitter: stop blaming white people for absolutely everything, eh?


#2

Fucking hell mate, could’ve squeezed another few paragraphs out there I reckon

It’s a good thing
It winds up cunts
Not interested in projecting motives onto them, good or bad


#3

They weren’t born cunts. Thatcherism made some people cunts, New Labour others or the existing cunts even more so, the regressive left is doing even more damage.


#4

Ahm oot.


#5

“Oh boy a post of that length by sullyvssully let me just read that”


#6

Stop with this daft idea that Brexit/Trump won because people would only insult them than rather argue against them. Loads of arguments were made against them and people decided not to listen. 45% of the US electorate didn’t/couldn’t vote last year. I’d rather try to persuade them and tell all the Trump voters they’re bigoted morons than bother trying to talk round the bigoted morons.

And John Lewis are the good guys here and people like Piers Morgan can fuck off.


#7

The alt-left doesn’t exist.

The regressive left certainly does.


#8

MAKING GENDER NEUTRAL CLOTHING FOR CHILDREN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT OR TRUMP FFS


#9

It’s to do with BLAIR!!


#10

Who cares. If you’re buying children’s clothes from John Lewis you’re basically beyond saving/a millionaire.
Enjoy all that mud, sick and snot on your £50 gender neutral cardigan, twat!!


#11

It’s not political at all, just parents passing down the same ideas they were brought up with that do not appear insidious at first glance (pink for girls blue for boys etc) but when gendered clothing and toys etc are harming the developmental growth/self esteem of girls, it becomes a problem that needs to be addressed. Prepubescent children are similar both physically and mentally so creating such a distinct divide that favours one gender is obviously not right and something parents universally need to address, simple as that


#12

Agree with you on the apathy - Remain would have won comfortably if we’d got all the 18-24 year olds to vote.

Maybe those arguments, though, both in the UK/US, weren’t quite made enough, as the threat wasn’t taken seriously?

A lot of people have learned massively from those mistakes though. Though the Democrats still seem to sometimes fight amongst themselves…


#13

I don’t enjoy your posts that much.


#14

The OP was almost as long as one of those classic kik 7pm Friday night Weekend Football threads!


#15

When my daughter was 7 she wanted I buy some pyjamas that had skulls on them. They said BOYS PYJAMAS on the packet and she was so outraged she took them to customer services to complain. I loved watching this spotty seventeen year old trying to defend the company packaging policy to an irate 7 year old.


#16

I totally disagree that this is a class thing. Bigoted morons are rife throughout every class - it’s not about winding up plumbers.


#17

Not directly, but there’s a reason why this is the only Spectator article I will ever agree with and share here. (Apart from the odd mention of staunch Republican Caitlyn Jenner, and if you oppose gay marriage you ARE at least a little homophobic.)

Also, the confusion about such an innocent everyday topic can easily be seized by very nasty people indeed, who think that there is some “Marxist Jewish conspiracy to confuse people about their gender/biological sex to stop white people procreating as part of the Kalergi plan.” You know, the “alt-right”, neo-Nazis, some of the world’s worst cunts ever. These aren’t things fathers and sons say while falling out about Brexit in a cafe in Sunderland, but when democracy, civility and respectful conversation break down in the slightest sense, the scariest vultures begin to circle.


#18

Honestly it is shocking how bad the pink/blue thing still is in some places, worst of all with asda’s baby clothes, other than a small amount of neutral white it is pretty much all one or the other.

I do find it strange how anyone could be that annoyed at what John Lewis have done, they still have plenty of divide in clothes obviously aimed at boys or obviously aimed at girls if that is what you are looking for, it is just not labelled as such so if you are willing to have a more open mind you don’t have to worry about buying your boy a ‘girl’ jumper or your girl a ‘boy’ pair of trousers because you aren’t being told that something is one or the other.


#19

Dunno why you think if you post this drivel another millionth time you’ll find anyone else that’ll agree with you. It’s just not true, fucking let it go.


#20

:nauseated_face: