#124

No no, I’m pleased you and others have.

Yep let’s leave it there, because although I’ve clashed with you in the past as well as in this thread, I’m a fan of you work.

#125

I think my issue would be that I’m all for discussions about Islam, anti-semitism and so on, but I really think starting from the likes of Tommy Robinson’s views is a bad way of opening that up. People of that ilk really don’t appear to be interested in a discussion, rather they’re interested in getting across a polemic having made up their minds years ago.

edit - to be clear, not trying to tell you how to think; your experiences are almost certainly more valid than mine in this arena. Merely explaining why I personallybelieve that giving people with those views completely free reign is not beneficial.

#128

The trouble is that if everyone in the country had voted I don’t think Brexit would be happening. Voter turn out was very poor. On a simple level there’s more good people in the world than bad people. There’s just too much apathy about such things

#129

Thing is we’re in the era of post-truth, people are being convinced it’s fine to put gut feeling above ‘so called facts’ and views are more and more entrenched. The ability to turn people away from hateful ideas with facts and rational arguments has demonstrably become harder and harder to do, hence unfortunate results to public votes. An afternoon on twitter is all you need to see how impossible it’s become to change the mind of someone with facts and evidence when they’ve already decided what they think.

Facts are no longer taken as facts, a source that disagrees with someone’s opinion is biased and fake. It’s not so clear cut. Trying to stop the bullshit from reaching people before this point is the only viable option now.

2 Likes
#130

Yes I see your point. However Robinson could easily open a new twitter account or get someone to do it for him. At least if he’s on twitter or similar the authorities know to a degree what he is thinking and planning and can try to put a stop to anything nasty he has planned. I know it comes across as idealist and good will triumph over evil but I do think it’s not impossible if extremely difficult.

#131

It was over 72%, I’m not sure how much you’re expecting.

5 Likes
#132

Higher than any general election I can remember though

#133

Do you not think if everyone had voted though we’d have a different result? I think too many thought there’s no way it can happen so just didn’t bother

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#135

No, not really. We’ve got results of a poll of 33,500,000 people there, which is the best possible indication of how a vote of 45,000,000 would go.

#136

With Trevor Eve.

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#138

It was a close result though. 52-48

#139

Yeah, and you’d need a significant reversal of that in the people who didn’t vote (my rough maths is saying 55/45, but Friday night maths aren’t my strong point) to even out the result across the country. There’s no reason to think that would have happened.

#140

The Paradox of Tolerance has already been mentioned here but another concept that might be useful for the OP is Schmitt’s critique of the kind of liberalism you’re espousing upthread. This isn’t to say that what you’re saying is inherently wrong, more there’s a number of presuppositions which underline liberal democracies that people like Robinson subvert by creating a specific axis of antagonism which can be seen whenever he’s given a platform to speak.

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#141

If anything i’d suggest the turnover for the Brexit vote was too high. Had it been anywhere around the 64% average of General Elections over the last twenty years we’d have probably stopped talking about the result by now.

#142

He must have gone pretty far to be banned from a site that suspends people for telling the American Nazi Party they smell like butts. I can only assume Tommy Robinson finally said something bad about Huel or neoliberalism… :thinking:

#143

always hated time team

#144

*Time Time

#147

Just want to reiterate this. If they were banned from YouTube, Twitter, Facebook (think these three companies have got more to answer for in the rise of fascism than anyone else) that would make such a massive, massive difference. Think the current state of play is scary because they’ve got such a massive reach and potential to radacalise so many people that are vulnerable, ignorant or should know better.

Banning them helps their us-v-them, liberal elite establishment narrative but who cares. If they’re forced onto their own little cesspit their horrific views would be self-contained and wouldn’t have nearly the same kind of influence.

4 Likes
#148

Alas, poor Baldrick…

#149

surely tony, not tommy you want to apologise to? :wink:

1 Like