Transphobia #SSP

Lol, was thinking it was weird that there hadn’t been much transphobia from the guardian recently.

Have just come across this from the other week when looking for something for work

Very, very naively thought from the headline that it might be talking about the oppression of transgender people but lol ofc not this is the Guardian :sweat_smile:

This is actually one of the most egregious pieces I have seen in the Guardian, perhaps partly because it’s not being upfront about the subject of the article and pretending it’s just a tack-on instead, and partly because of how it is so far removed from reality.

Feel so sick of the lies and oppression and harassment and gaslighting.

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Ugh yeah I saw that tweeted - the author, who I was following :frowning: , responding “thank you” to loads of GC terfy type who gushed how important the article was and zero responses to anyone else.

It’s the link in her pinned tweet too, so I guess she is enjoying the plaudits from terrible people.

So sorry that you have to put up with this shit constantly

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What is the common ground to be found between trans women who don’t want to be forced to used men’s changing rooms and those who don’t think they’re women? Lib opinion pieces are so unbearably craven, posturing how thoughtful they are personally without offering any kind of solution.

Also noticeable in these articles how the terfs are always real people with real histories and the other side an anonymous, hateful mob. No biases here, both sides getting fair representation

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The whole rhetoric from places like the Guardian treats trans people like they’re theoretical, a topic to be debated, rather than real people you might know and care about.

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Gaslighting is exactly right

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I don’t know why they bother with these condescending twisty wordy replies. Could just write “Get back in your box, prole scum” and have done with it.

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These sorts of people need to keep telling themselves they’re good and even-handed. It’s their whole identity.

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Both times I’ve complained I’ve had almost the same thing back but with the details changed. “I appreciate your concern…now, off you fuck”

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Lindsey Ellis video, apparently was supposed to be a collaboration with the recent contrapoints one but they couldn’t schedule it

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This might seem like a niche issue, but it goes a fair bit further than just something for the architectural community to comment on

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This is a really good article

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Good summary of how dogwhistelly and laced with disingenuous stuff that consultation is.

Anyone interested in it - deadline for comments is tonight.

At the risk of getting bogged (ha!) down in the nonsense of it, I want to ask about this bit on the Call For Evidence page

In recent years, there has been a trend towards the removal of well-established male-only/female-only spaces when premises are built or refurbished, and they have often been replaced with gender-neutral toilets. This places women at a significant disadvantage. While men can then use both cubicles and urinals, women can only use the former, and women also need safe spaces given their particular health and sanitary needs (for example, women who are menstruating, pregnant or at menopause, may need to use the toilet more often).

It just seems factually wrong. Off the top of my head, the gender-neutral toilets I can think of are all-cubicle, rather than the “significant disadvantage” scenario painted here of women having to hang around while men have the option of splashing piss all over a bunch of urinals.

Are urinals truly a common feature of shared gender-neutral toilet spaces?

They’re not. I’ve never seen that outside of a few clubs/bars that have a shared sink area, but a separate WC area. Typically, gender neutral WCs are self-contained rooms with a pan, basin and hand-drier (and sanitary bin). If they are of the washroom-type, they’ll have a bank of cubicles and no urinals. I don’t like the latter as they offer little audible privacy, and every client I’ve worked with has preferred the self-contained room approach.

I do think that self-contained WCs have an issue with men not treating WCs as well as women though - I designed a bus station with self-contained, non-gender specific, cubicles for the drivers, but the bus operator had to make one of them women-only after just 48 hours as every single one of them ended up with piss and bog roll all over the floor and with shit all over the pans. I see no reason why you can’t have some dedicated women-only WC for cleanliness reasons, but the rest gender neutral.

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Ta. Confirmed what I thought.

It’s an interesting discussion. From a design perspective. So I’ll leave it there for now, rather than indulge in an off-topic subthread. Which is not to presume that there aren’t any other relevant on-topic points, obv.

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How does this work in practice though? Because I can imagine this being a situation where all the gender neutral loos effectively become the gents’ and all the women carry on queueing for the few ladies’ loos.

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In my experience, it’s something that only really arises when you have an extremely disproportionate gender split in employees in the first place, so the assigning of specific WCs tends not to create too many problems. (Which isn’t to say that the workplaces themselves don’t have issues that lead to the imbalance in the workforce, obviously).

If you want to make some loos gender specific, then there are british standards setting out what proportion of toilets should be male or female within different workplaces of different sizes. The standards aren’t perfect (if they were, we wouldn’t hear of any complaints about WC provision), but places of work are still meant to adhere to them.

I’ve been in many a ladies loo that’s been utterly rancid, so not sure keeping them separate will help most of the time.

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Remember someone on here once saying that the gents have a reliable level of grottiness they never rise above whereas the ladies are either pristine or a horrifying bombsite with nothing in-between. Has always stuck with me

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This is the thing - so many people get into a flap about gender neutral toilets because they don’t understand what they are, and don’t realise they’ve already used loads of them.

My old office had one on every floor and it was built in the early 90s. They had a male and female symbol on the door, plenty of men and women used them one after another, but because they were never referred to as ‘gender neutral’ nobody batted an eyelid. When they heard our new office was going to have some gender neutral toilets everyone thought it was very modern and PC but they’re exactly the same as the old ones.

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