Trump 2018 - Road to Midterms/Nuclear War


#381

Liberals will always side with fascists? Have I forgotten how the English language works?


#382

what is happening in america right now fam. why is the EU making nice with the far right on the mainland. why’s liberal godboy macron attacking workers’ rights and fucking with race science theory and anti-immigrant rhetoric. why do liberals tell us antifa movements and the alt-right are exactly the same. why’d the lib dems go into coalition with a government they knew would lay the groundwork for an authoritarian seizure of power like brexit. how come western liberal democracies always end up supporting the francos, pinochets, saddams, al qaedas, erdogans, contras, and etc and etc and etc.

you haven’t forgotten how the english language works, you’ve just forgotten about all that^.


#383

and also dig the following “if forced to choose”. the dems are being forced to choose right now and they’re opting to support a regime they say is the fourth reich.


#384

I thought maybe you’d misspoke, or phrased something poorly and you’d reframe it but wow this is a hell of a double down you’ve gone for here…

You are cherrypicking some hella convenient, for your purposes, examples to support this view of being liberal.


#385

tfw citing liberal support for genocide and mass murder is a “hella conveniant” way to support an argument.


#386

Way to tar a whole heap of people with one narrow shitty brush.


#387

I think there’s a difference between professing liberal beliefs, and what the neo-liberal establishment is and what it has been doing over the past ten years or so. The fascist movements and take-overs we see today all came into being under that consensus’s watch - the policies they pursued allowed them to develop, and for all such politicians’ professed distaste for them they appear powerless to stop them. People who genuinely believe in liberal values should feel betrayed by yer Obamas, Hollandes and Blairs.


#388

maybe they shouldn’t have shitty compromise-as-default-tactic politics then.

also looking forward to parse’s reply, they’ve been typing for ages. i’m kinda nervous cos we are 50-50 in agreement in our politics so it’s exciting to see if they’ll agree with me.


#389

i will take parse’s reply as a semi-win for me tbh.


#390

Typical of the hard left to seek a hollow victory of principle rather than a compromise that will allow us to move forward together.


#391

And in that notion there lies the fact that liberalism is always held to a standard that real life means it can never meet. And I don’t say that in any way to justify the failures of liberal politicians like Blair and Obama but instead to acknowledge that… I dunno… I’d 900% always prefer to put in power a politician who is forced to compromise their values because… The world is what it is rather than a group of politicians whose primary motivations are inherently opposed to every iota of my values.

But I guess it is just easier to say liberals always side with fascists because blanket statements are fun.


#392

that is the nature of the hard left im afraid


#393

they compromise their values by compromising or collaborating with the worst scum of the earth, so this reads to me like all that matters is the name on the package, not the actual contents. therefore they are no use to anybody and will be the death of us all unless we promote an actual alternative to the new fascism.


#394

Well you could read it like that if you were forcing yourself to see that notion and were a bit hard of understanding, I suppose.

I dunno mate what’s your answer, fishbulb?


#395

#396

I mean holy fuck it’s almost like being liberal and left leaning has never done anything good for society or something.


#397

does it matter what good progressive policies you’ve implemented if you end up undoing them at the first chance to make a deal with somebody who should be your enemy in the interests of compromise and bipartisanship.

we gotta think here pal.

also

Well you could read it like that if you were forcing yourself to see that notion and were a bit hard of understanding, I suppose.

ad hom, not an argument.


#398

I don’t think anyone is doing any thinking in this conversation. You’ve got your view - liberals when forced to choose will choose fascism - which I think is complete bollocks, so here we are. I don’t think you’ve given a moment’s thought to anything I’ve said and have just trotted out stock arguments/scapegoats.

I mean we live in a hell of a different world from 1918 and in the last 100 years the vast majority of positive progress that has been made for society and people, which for me is the most important thing, has been driven by liberals and liberal ideologies.


#399

i think it’s pretty indicative of a certain mode of thinking to consign historical examples of liberal collaboration with fascism to “stock arguments/scapegoats”. either we’re learning something from what has gone before or we aren’t.

which doesn’t in any way invalidate what i said, which is that in the interests of seeking power or maintaining their position, liberals will happily undo all that if they have to. as they are doing right now, literally everywhere you look, especially in europe and america.

and it’s also a stretch to say liberals (so often code for “white middle class people”) are the main drivers of the gains made in civil rights and promoting social justice. unless we’re just pretending MLK and people like him weren’t huge, massive fucking socialists, if not outright communists.


#400

e.g., when dr king spoke of “the white moderate”, liberals and liberalism were exactly what he was kicking against.