Trump 2018 - Road to Midterms/Nuclear War


#781

Remember the good,old,noble days when our PM was Bush’s lapdog?


#782

Press are going crazy for this horseshit.


#783

Could anybody link me to some decent reading material re: the last week in Syria? My usual news outlets are letting me down so far


#784

rumours that ISIS took advantage of the bombings to assault a couple of SAA and police barracks around Damascus and other jihadi factions are looking to follow suit, light spot of rape, kidnap and murder during the chaos. they’ll probably kill more people than died in the chemical attack.

well fucking done, allies. really, great job.


#785

Hussam Youis, 27, said:

We thought Trump’s threats were empty words as he was late in implementing them and that is why we went to bed as usual, only to wake up suddenly at the drastic sounds of the explosions.
I ran at 4am with my family to a nearby shelter built in a school to find lots of people who were already there, with their terrified children.
Some of these rockets deviated of their main targeted and fell on the houses of the civilians.

the guardian have lost their minds:


#786

what does the J stand for, Jerk?


#787


#788

#789

“we have made a proxy war in syria…”

holy shit, genuinely shocked this guy was allowed to admit this on msnbc of all places.


#790

Is Alex Jones…good now ?

Obviously not but broken clock etc


#791

found this interesting.


#792

I love, love, love people who are fine with the racism, the incompetence, the senility, the lack of qualification, the screwing of the poor, the bigotry, the waste, the destruction of the environment…but globalism is where they draw the line.

I know two people like this. One considers himself a “progressive” but voted for Trump because “Hillary and Pizzagate” and he’s also in his 30s and brags about driving drunk. The other one is a jobless son of millionaires who is always traveling the world and thinks Obama destroyed his quality of life (again, millionaires who are always traveling and own multiple homes).


#793

A really interesting article, that - it shares a lot of my concerns about the situation. I am extremely torn on the matter.


#794

yeah, this is pretty much how i felt about it a couple of years ago. (got accused of being a Guardian reader who wanted brown people to die)


#795

On this forum? :slightly_frowning_face: Whilst there is often some good debate and analysis to be had in these politics threads that wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, and I’m very sorry to hear you experienced that.

When you say this is how you felt about matters a couple of year ago that seems to imply your opinion has changed? If so, how? As somebody who hit teenage years just as the UK joined in invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, I have an in-built scepticism if intervention both generally and carried out by the UK/US governments and militaries in particular.

That said, I do think there have been cases historically where intervention has been/would have been entirely justifiable and beneficial. Have no fucking clue anymore if that’s the case with Syria


#796

Noticed they mention Srebrenica there. They’re not the first; there’s been a lot of comparisons made with Bosnia by different journalists and I don’t see it to be honest. Totally different wars, totally different roles played by the West. IMO the only similarity is that it seems to have been decided that the West did nothing in 1995 and is doing nothing in Syria now. This is just not true in either case.

@AdamJeffson I think we need to figure what we mean by “intervention”. The pundits only seem to consider intervention to be televised bombing and the presence of ground troops. Totally ignores the really dirty ways we’ve been shaping the Syrian conflict pretty much since it began.


#797

I still feel mostly the same way about military intervention as a concept as I did a few years ago (nearly always a terrible idea, but not always in theory… but would require so much thought and nuance to make it work, both militarily [with a low death toll] and afterwards, that it seems very unlikely to be justifiable especially in this hawkish climate). Guess the change is that I feel more strongly opposed to intervening, especially when our country (and the US/France) treats refugees so disgustingly. How is it possible to get on a moral high horse about the benefits of bombing a country and then act like we can’t possibly help out those who lose everything as a result??

I had different starting point from most of DiS when it comes to this, because I have a totally different experience of ‘processing’ Iraq. Was about 10 when it happened and so everything (of the little i was aware of) was understood in quite a childish way. Saddam = bad, WMDs = bad, getting rid of them = good. i remember watching the statue of Saddam being knocked down in Baghdad on the news and me and my dad cheering about it… as a kid it felt like this big triumphant moment. finding out years later that it wasn’t over and it had fucked things up even harder was a bit of a shock. and then seeing it happen in Libya, Syria etc… madness that commentators think that history repeating itself will lead to a different outcome.


#798

Fixed that for you


#799

I recall Bill Hicks had a ‘One of the Boys’ sequence about Clinton regarding this, the idea that once the Republicans were out there was a belief that the Democrats would do what was right, but then he went off and did a bunch of airstrikes killing civilians over the flimsiest of reasons.

I think there was also a sketch (or part of the same one) where he joked that on his first day a President was taken into room where they showed footage of the assassination of Kennedy from a strange new angle and basically told the new boss what he was going to do.

I mention this because I think it’s interesting that the same sort of revelation has now come to the alt-right + brocialist anti-Hillary crowd who seemed to think Trump was better because he wasn’t ‘a hawk’


#800

Yeah in 2011-12 I was convinced that Assad had to go, and that the seemingly democratic “rebel” opposition that had emerged as part of the Arab Spring ought to replace him, as that would be an indigenous popular movement rather than a govt imposed by Western powers.

These days that group seems so fractured and war fatigue appears to have resulted in strengthened support for Assad - in all honesty idk who could successfully replace him. The article you shared nicely summarises that in the “Trolley” metaphor we’re now debating the ethics of action/inaction after the trolley has passed the points :disappointed:

All I know is that Assad is a massive chode and I hope that one day Syria will be able to heal and move on to a better place without his stain