Trump 2019 Thread - Walls! Government shutdowns! Other stuff!


#121


#122

congratulations to mr maduro. the US could learn much from venezuela’s elections, globally recognised as being transparent and legitimately democratic. i hope the CIA doesn’t kill him.


#123

“an election that his political opponents and many foreign nations consider illegitimate because popular opponents were banned from running and the largest anti-government parties boycotted the race”


#124
  1. if you repeatedly ask the US military and the CIA to kill the president during secret meetings in washington, and pay people to drop grenades out of helicopters onto government buildings, incite riots, and burn working class chavistas alive in the streets, then why should you be allowed to run in the election? i know they allow that kind of thing in the UK, what with the DUP being in power and all, but in venezuela they have rules against it.
  2. if you boycott the race then who’s fault is it that you didn’t win the election?

maduro is no chavez, and there are legitimate critiques of his government to be made, but he won, and the venezuelan electoral process is recognised as legitimate whether we like it or not. we just have to accept that.


#125

Not my opinion, obviously. Direct quote from the AP article you posted.


#126

oh yeah, i know, i was responding to that.


#127

“the Organization of American States voted not to recognize the legitimacy of Maduro’s second term, adopting a resolution presented by Colombia, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, the United States, Paraguay and Peru”


#128

:man_shrugging: at least 2 of those states have fascist leaders and all of them do whatever the US tells them to anyway. weak beer.

the best take i saw was the guardian expressing horror that poor people voted for maduro because the government looks after them. enacting policies is now bribery.


#129

again, not defending maduro, the man is flawed.


#130

EU statement, yesterday:

As stated by the EU in the Council Conclusions of May 2018, the presidential elections of last May in Venezuela were neither free, nor fair. Its outcome lacked any credibility as the electoral process did not ensure the necessary guarantees for inclusive and democratic elections.

The EU deeply regrets that its call for “fresh presidential elections in accordance with internationally recognised democratic standards and the Venezuelan constitutional order” was ignored and that President Maduro is today starting a new mandate on the basis of non-democratic elections


#131

covered upthread^

“The EU deeply regrets that its call for “fresh presidential elections in accordance with internationally recognised democratic standards and the Venezuelan constitutional order” was ignored and that

western, capitalist standards. i mean i know the EU is a paragon of democratic values and has never interfered in or blackmailed other nations into accepting crushing financial reforms and the like but i think they’re wrong here.

President Maduro is today starting a new mandate on the basis of non-democratic elections”

based on their deliberate misrepresentation of why rivals didn’t run and a definition of democracy that favours the way “we” do things in liberal democracies. even if he really was this murderous tyrannical dictator (who for some reason still holds elections he knows people will claim are rigged anyway), why is venezuela in the crosshairs and other places aren’t? idk, it’s weird.

still firmly in the #handsoffvenezuela camp tbh


#132

Tbf you did say

Although I accept the tone was probably meant to be sarcastic to a degree


#133

part sarcasm i guess. not liking the outcome is fine, but they need to show receipts if they’re saying the outcome de facto means the process is flawed. i would argue trump losing the popular vote but still gaining command of a nuclear arsenal is way more serious, but afaik nobody in the EU issued a collective statement condemning american democracy (if this did happen fair enough).

it’s the double standards that grind my gears, when we should be congratulating mr maduro on gaining popular support in the midst of crisis, and asking how we as a rich nation can help his country regain its footing.


#134

also i urge everyone interested to watch these:

and read this:


#135

@ghosthalo Pretty much all I know about Venezuela ATM is there are a lot of people fleeing the country - why is that? Interested to hear an interpretation that isn’t based on EVIL SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT


#136

maduro has fucked it, is the short answer. they bet the house on their oil reserves and did all this weird currency evaluation stuff i don’t fully understand, so when oil prices went down and the US tightened sanctions, they were screwed. they also didn’t go as far as they should have done economically - there are still lots of millionaires evading tax, private companies hoarding goods to inflate their value, corrupt elements in the government they can’t/won’t go after for political reasons, and externally the US has put a virtual economic blockade on them. nicky doesn’t have chavez’s tactical nous either, so he’s making one bad decision after another, cosying up to erdogan, treatment of migrants, etc, all very bad. i read they’re trying to get something going with cryptocurrency and russia and china, but :grimacing:

on the plus side the revolution still has a massive base of support, but there’s only so much deprivation venezuelans can take before they decide maduro is failing them, which some seem to be doing now. i think his supporters are split between genuine maduro fans and ppl who figure better him than some neolib US stooge. at least you still get your dole and healthcare with maduro. as you can tell this is a massively biased site and there is considerable bullshit on there but it’s really useful:

https://www.venezuelasolidarity.co.uk

also telesurv are good because they are critical of maduro but sympathetic to the revolution itself.


#137

I know posting AOC tweets is old hat but this is too good


#138

Would also recommend Venezuela Analysis


#139

aye, good site


#140

:smiley: