not to devalue or diminish anything people have said, but I think we’re all in dire need of a fucking pint here.
We can add that feature into the new board mate, it’s fine.
Nah, it’s clearly a dig to respond that less than 20mins after this poster left a huge message.
Really hate to see someone who has spent ages on this topic and been a valued member of the community being further goaded. Just not helpful.
If it was meant as a dig I wouldn’t save said it wasn’t. I shouldve said “leaving” not “left” so I can see why it might read that way though, but not my intention.
I don’t really want to take over the conversation so I’ll leave it at that.
In the genuinely nicest way possible, is there any way you could… Just try to be more succinct? I’ve tried to read through this/understand what you feel like you need, and I genuinely just can’t parse this
Not a dig in any way at all, and it’s probably just because I’m reading on my phone, but it’s just not very clear to me.
Again, not meaning this as any kind of a dig, it would just be nice to have some form of précis?
Just trying to understand people’s pov a bit more rather than just wading in.
At this point, I just don’t understand what this thread is for.
Conversations about maintaining the site have started elsewhere and are productive already.
Some people want to complain to about certain things, which is fair enough, and there’s valid stuff here but there aren’t any requested outcomes for those complaints. “Apologise more, or again, in the way I expect or find wholly satisfying,” isn’t a tangible goal and even then - it doesn’t result in any material change to the site or how things will be run. Moreover, will a “perfect” apology really be the preferred outcome at this point? If you force someone to say something that you want, in this protracted fashion, doesn’t that diminish the value of what you’re trying to achieve?
Personally, I don’t think a forum thread is an appropriate location for this sort of discussion. Granted the alternative would be some kind of complaint policy/form, to help prevent the circular nature of these discussions, but regardless it would still need to be clear what would be a satisfiable outcome for the complainant.
(Not aiming this at any poster in particular but the general approach multiple posters are taking. Again, I don’t want to diminish what are a lot of valid issues - but there’s no end in sight here and it feels really toxic and unpleasant).
Won’t speak for anyone else, but i think @redacted has been pretty clear on a couple of occasions that he believes the community should move forward without Sean. Not sure whether that’s been the case in this specific thread as I’ve followed his view over a pretty lengthy period.
Won’t pretend to know whether that reflects others views though.
that is fair, I really struggle with omitting detail and structuring things that are interconnected. I will DM you as I dont want to keep posting here
my final point (promise), something I omitted from the beginning. it is also about securing the future of this community, over the years the sudden closure of this forum has dangled over us as a distinct possibility, which is distressing as this place is really important. it has always been ‘might just close this place down’ rather than ‘I cant sustain this, so we need to explore transferring responsibility to the community itself’. I would say the origin of this thread is a minor example of this. Just think if the community does go to self funding and self hosting model, it would make sense if the community was fully responsible for itself, and the tensions between dis as a site and dis as a community could be resolved if decoupled. failing that I think there should be some kind of board or committee, which would also avoid all the criticism falling on one person. none of my business anymore though
edit: going to put my final thoughts in here rather than bump with a new post.
A lot of the discussion is ‘why do we need to keep going over this’ ‘people are never going to get the resolution they want’. I find that strange as it is not like this is being raked up for no reason, it is in the clear context of looking forward and deciding how dis should be run, generally when it comes up it is in the context of people wanting more transparency/governance/accountability etc. personally I think given the problems of the past even if everything had been adequately acknowledged and resolved (I don’t) it would still be valid to want to avoid the pitfalls of single point of responsibility and go for a more communal model.
the thing I find frustrating is it seems like people think I can be convinced, like I am just missing a piece of information and then I will see the same as they do. I won’t, my opinion formed over decades, that is why it is quite hard to even discuss because you have to focus on individual points when really it is just a cloud of things, I see a clear pattern of problems grounded in this tension between the site and community, and know acknowledgments and concessions have been hard won often after have to wade through so much dismissal.
I am confident there are about 10 others I know broadly agree with me, probably more I don’t know about, users in good standing, just wish instead of trying to persuade us we are wrong it was accepted as a significant sentiment in the community. That then leaves the problem of how to reconcile, do people priories those users feelings over their attachment to the brand, or if people are loyal to dis and think we are being unreasonable that is entirely valid as well, but just don’t expect that to not cause conflict is what I am saying. Obviously this cuts both ways and i’m guilty of trying to persuade people too. think it is futile, just have to acknowledge factions exist, only way I can personally reconcile it is by leaving
You wouldn’t be advising the use of artificial National threads would you father?