Ukraine-Russia Crisis Thread

These guys are like a Far Cry boss and his sub-bosses.

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so like, 16-60? Like 80% citation needed of the world? what a useful framing there …

oh it’s useful alright

I dont disagree with the overall message and that MP seems like a nasty racist shite. But intentionally translating “refugees of war” to “real refugees” surely leaves the post open to criticism that they’re twisting his words (and consequently potentially putting off some people who might otherwise support the post)

Edit: I get that in this case him using the phrase “refugees of war” acts as a coded way of saying “real refugees.” I guess what im trying to say is that to your aveage viewer who speaks/understands Spanish it could look like theyre willfully misiterpreting him because theyve done it without any explanation of that context, even. And the change doesnt really seem necessary in the first place so just very weird all around

Yeah, it does open it to criticism and it does seem unnecessary.

To be honest, given the rest of the words, if someone is going to get too caught up in that they’re probably not really “on side” anyway.

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Why is it always a package deal? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who thinks, say, 9/11 was perpetrated by the US government but concedes that on balance, we probably did go to the moon a few times. Or that Covid is a hoax who doesn’t also think 9/11 was an inside job, etc etc

That’s a very fair point. Im probably just nit-picking whereas I should be focusing on the main message, which is very important. It just really jumped out at me as something potentially very counterproductive when i watched it, to the point where it kinda distracted my attention for the rest of the video.

That’s probably not very representative though, i doubt they’re going to get many failed Spanish students trying to make out the actual speech, especially as the text is in English

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I think I’ve said above in discussions on propaganda that if you’re aiming for the moral high ground you need to be more careful your messages are accurate. Perceived wrong doing has a proportionally larger effect on the goodies

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Yeah that’s essentially what I was trying to say, only put much better and much more succintly. Thanks :slight_smile:

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Because I think you either trust the institutions and narratives that frame our lives or you don’t.

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My partner is really starting to panic about war spreading - partly because we’re in Sweden and so in pretty close physical proximity to Russia, and also because of having a newborn (currently) without a passport. Sweden is comparatively hot on preparedness for this sort of thing, for example there are bomb shelters everywhere, sirens which are tested every 3 months and everyone has a copy of a document about being prepared for war.

I’m not worried, but in the back of my mind also can’t work out if I should be. The possibility feels very remote to me at the moment but also I don’t know if I’m burying my head in the sand. V confusing.

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If you are rich, you are in some essential way white and English to the strange people who this country. That is why we found it so easy to make common cause with all those Nazis at the end of World War 2.

Wow. Can’t help but feel the UK is woefully underprepared, not necessarily in relation to this conflict escalating, but any conflict

Yeah exactly. I mean preparedness in itself isn’t a bad thing, but even if you just take small steps it definitely makes things more real when you actually think about what you’re doing.

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Neither the time nor a place for it but I believe it was an inside job in as much as the Saudi elite did it and the US government covered for them to spare blushes/oil supplies. I believe we landed on the moon though :man_shrugging:

EDIT: as @Irritable said, not the time or place for this debate

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I wasn’t trying to tell you to be quiet, sorry if it came off that way. I thought this was an interesting post you deleted and it does bear discussion because “fake news”, faith in institution and conspiracism is as much a part of this conflict as the tanks and soldiers.

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and @Irritable @hip_young_gunslinger

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For example the intelligence being right here is now retroactively justifying the lies we told to start previous wars. An awful precedent.

And I also saw a thing about, there is a very similar and fascinating age gap to US/UK between younger Russians who are against the war and anti-Putin, and the older Russians who believe everything the government says. Based on how likely older people are to get news exclusively from television and right wing websites aimed at baby boomer Russians, much like Facebook has poisoned our elders here in West… There was a good thread on twitter by a data person, I will try to find it.

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