#197

I’ve not read the whole thread but it is worth noting that the biggest impact Australia’s gun buy back in the John Howard era had was reducing suicides. I believe it reduced suicide by gun more than it reduced homicide by gun and also there wasn’t a comparative increase in other types of suicide to make up for the drop off. Availability of guns statistically makes suicide more likely.

#198

Nope

The reason I’m writing this post at this late date, and the reason I’m encouraging anyone who’s interested in the subject to read the “Understanding” paper linked above, is that a lot of the discussion about Freakonomics implies that legalized abortion alone has been responsible for the drop in crime, and that all other explanations are baloney. This, however, is not remotely the argument that our book puts forth.

1 Like
#199

For a bit of levity… the replies to this tweet are pretty great

https://twitter.com/man_in_radiator/status/915038849281220608

8 Likes
#200

thoroughly deserved response!

#201

That is fucking hilarious.

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#202

They’ve also got a huge membership and they’re very good at mobilising them, and for the vast majority it’s the only issue that matters, so it’s perceived to be politically disastrous for anyone at any level advocating gun control in certain areas, as they’ll just back whichever candidate isn’t calling for that. Whether that’s true or not’s open to debate, but it seems to make a difference.

#203

Sorry, I’ve just repeated your first paragraph really, haven’t I? Only really read the second one.

#204

That’ll teach me to skim-read

#205

you know all these acid attacks that have been in the news?

there’s talk of banning sales to under 18’s what we really need is more acid

[/satire]

#206

I think they’ve deleted the tweet now

#207
#208

The guy looks like an older, balder Steve McDonald.

3 Likes
#209

Summary in here:

#210
#211

image

#213

Fuck, that’s a long list.

#214

Found it a bit muddled, partly because it comes from the focus of someone who’s particularly invested in suicide prevention.

“Of course, this probably won’t prevent mass shootings”, so it doesn’t deal with a big part problem. “Mass shootings are incredibly rare.” 1 a day in 2017 isn’t incredibly rare. And that’s not even including all other homicides (some 40% of deaths by the look of it, which is a lot). The number of deaths is staggering.

That isn’t to say that it’s not important to focus on suicides however she argues that people who don’t have guns, won’t commit suicide by other means, and so, effectively, that the main solution is the same: gun control. Making gun access a more lengthy process will stop some impulsive suicides. It won’t solve many, it won’t stop the homicides. Not a holistic solution at all.

#215

I think it does address a lot of your points. While “rare” is perhaps the wrong word to use (and I think they admit that in a follow up), the point is that your chance of being involved in a mass shooting incidence is really very small. And similarly, the rate of homicides is particularly acute among certain demographics rather than spread across the population as a whole.

On the suicide point, surely it makes sense that gun control will prevent lots of suicides? Australia showed a huge drop in suicide by gun when it increased regulation, with no concurrent rise in other methods.

Nothing is going to magically eliminate gun deaths short of all guns in the US magically disappearing, but increased controls will reduce all incidents of violence.

#216

It would. Removing the access to means is key.

Suicides often happen during.moments of short term crisis.

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#217

Of course it would do, I didn’t mean to debate that. I was saying it was better to take a holistic approach rather than focusing only on half of the problem. Delaying access to guns will save a lot of lives, but not prevent homicides or mass shootings, by her own admission, and probably won’t prevent the majority of suicides, as those people may be able to access guns anyway/might not be purchasing new guns in the first place.

Basically, it’s not a wrong opinion, just a skewed perspective given his/her own niche area.

1 Like