but it’s hard to deny that there will be a vague correlation at least, no?

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just trying to think of a situation where if something was harmful (doesn’t have to be sadism here just thinking more broadly) you could get non-biased feedback from the people who enjoy it. I guess you could say the only observable harm would be from these people too but I dunno, psychology is a complex thing that no doubt affects many aspects of life

Further to this way of putting it and maybe by way of non-contentious example.

I prefer to hug people I meet socially rather than shake hands but I am aware that they might not. So I continually police and moderate my desire to do so, despite the fact the a hug is not inherently dangerous or destructive.

Moderating and policing your desires in the context of how they impact other people is entirely sensible whatever those desires might be.

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yeah I’d agree but I think the difference is that outside of people’s consent, causing pain and harm can only really be a negative outcome whereas a hug doesn’t have that inherent nature.

yeah I get that, I will work on reconciling this if I can

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um

think that agrees with what I’m saying

Power dynamics in sex can be toxic or harmful, obviously. Like in anything. I’m generally sceptical of people who reflexively reproduce the power dynamics we see in society, i.e. men who just consider themselves naturally dominant etc. I think we need to constantly interrogate our own sexuality, particularly if it’s a sexuality that assets itself over others, otherwise we risk incorporating oppressive norms, practices etc into the sex lives of the people we’re with.

At the same time, I think it’s true that men are often expected to at least take the lead in het sex, and often be actively dominant. This is fine, but it does lead to men being socialised to become dominant when there are other possibilities and avenues they could go down, I think. And of course some people do reproduce the conditions of their own oppression in the bedroom, which is something we should be open about and accepting of, and work towards a world where everyone can engage in all aspects of life in a healthy way.

As with everything in society, we can problematise this stuff without declaring it problematic.

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this will depend quite specifically on how you are defining harm, but I disagree fundamentally with this statement

Operation Spanner was (even at the time) highly controversial and the convictions that resulted are seen by many as a gross miscarriage of justice.

Charlie Lyne has directed an excellent short documentary that looks back on the case. Well worth watching.

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the only counter example I can think of is when it’s used in our bodies as a cautionary reflex to save us from further harm, like the pain of touching something really hot causing us to reflexively move our hand

pain is just a sensation in the same way as taste. Why is pain inherently bad?

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M8 please, not everything is a boring philosophy thought experiment that you can solve in your (empty) bedroom

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Dunno

Is this, like, actually cutting someone?

Guessing this is poop, if pee is watersports?

Pretending one or the other is older or younger

Guessing this isn’t cognitive behavioural therapy but dunno what it might be

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I used to work at a magazine with some mucky back pages and there was a guy who used to advertise similar services. He’s says one time he forgot the house number that he had the key for and spent all afternoon retracing his steps on the number 8 bus route while some poor fella was tied up. He also ran a thing where you could pay him and he would randomly abduct you at some point in the future.

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Cwbaft

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CNC is consensual non-consent, i.e. rapeplay.

cutting is cutting people yes.

hardsports is poo.

CBT is cock and ball torture

life is a rich tapestry.

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It’s probably only boring to you because of your privileged education or because you were lucky enough to be born with an intelligent and curious mind so have already worked out or been told answers that satisfy you to all of these questions.

My bedroom is full of musical equipment actually.

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seems a bit mean :frowning:

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i get your general point but is the comment at the end necessary?

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