Who here likes Buffy the Vampire Slayer? STRICTLY NO SPOILERS

Xander’s lucky it didn’t end up like that love potion in Rick and Morty…

Now watching ‘the body’ dawn saying ‘biatch’ is underrated

I believe you mean “Bit-cuh”.

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I think probably the weirdest thing in S4 is how completely differently the showrunners obviously viewed Riley compared to the viewers. It’s pretty baffling although I guess (laying aside actual problematic stuff) that I file this with stuff like Wesley Crusher, Scrappy Doo (I guess that makes SMG being in a Scooby Doo movie that made fun of this somewhat ironic) and even Jar-Jar Binks. I guess there are other examples too. No idea how this can happen.

FYI @Gnometorious the lack of definitively wind-up characters like Riley is part of why I put S7 over S4. S4 can probably beat it on a bunch of individual episodes but S4’s arc is a mess with the swap out of Professor Walsh in favour of Adam as the bad guy (out of their hands but it’s the end result) and a dream sequence finalé. And anyone who’s read my rants about the Sopranos knows that I only allow David Lynch to do goofy weird dream sequences. : D

Do you think the show runners thought he would be a popular heart throb character or something? I can’t remember what I thought as it happened at the time, but now I don’t think he is a bad character, he is bad in that he is boring and everyone rightfully hates him, but in terms of the story he served a purpose, and it seems like the seeds of that were there in season 4.

Agree with adam/walsh, Maggie was just getting interesting, got the same feeling of disappointment when Snoke got whacked, cool moment but at expense

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Wesley Crusher and Jar Jar’s existence were down to Gene Roddenberry/George Lucas and nobody being able to overrule them weren’t they, so maybe a bit different, as I don’t think it was just Joss Whedon who thought Riley was great (or maybe it was!)

Remember reading something about how all the crew and cast were shocked by the reception to jar jar, everyone thought he’d be a hit, whether they were just parroting the official line I don’t know

I absolutely do. There’s no other reason to do this.

I think it makes sense because what they were trying to do was give Buffy a kind of opposite of the fraught Angel relationship. But they completely messed it up.

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I don’t know, I think they probably wanted that on the surface level but it would have been a bit boring if he was just a clean cut good guy for buffy, it’s better That it starts like that and then cracks appear, the issues with him being insecure about being less powerful, not measuring up to angel, and being a mindless follower were there from the beginning and just played out. I guess the failing was that in that initial stage where he was supposed to me mr right, he was boring and unlikable

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Is that what you meant?

TBH I’ve not rewatched any Buffy seasons in full since 2004ish so I don’t have enough recall.

You’re probably right, though. I think it just struck me that when Riley first arrived all my friends who were big Buffy fans couldn’t stand him.

As a very beige, decent looking guy with no hidden emotional depths, I naturally have always felt a bit “personally attacked” by the immediate hate Riley got so I never quite got on the hate train with the rest of yous ; )

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Yeah I think we actually agree on the main bit, when Riley was introduced the audience were probably supposed to like him

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onto season 6 now, they’ve just confronted buffy with the fact she has no money left, and the house costs money. reckon if willow and tara paid rent that would surely cover it

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Also when buffy confesses to spike that she wasn’t in hell but heaven, and it felt like she knew everyone she cared about was safe. back on earth everyone she cared about were being terrorised by demon bikers, was she actually in heaven or in some deception dimension

Not sure what the no spoilers status of this thread anymore, assuming it’s alright

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Those demon bikers were shit.

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Cringey

The answer is when you get to Normal Again, surely?
Spoilers probably in the preview text so just the URL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_Again

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No.

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Really respected season 6 a lot more on rewatch. Most shows fall in love with their characters and just want to give them happy lives or cheap victories. Buffy had the bravery to go the opposite way, and push everyone as low as they could go. It also dealt realistically with the idea of someone being pulled back from the dead. As in, it wasn’t just a thing that happened and now it’s done - it shapes the whole rest of her life.

I love that the show forced her to grow up and confront things, which I think stands out particularly in an age of mega fan-service and infantilisation of the audience. It’s that consistent journey across 7 seasons that makes Buffy a proper hero

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