man isaac newton looked so fucking cool

image

hope he never did anything bad ever

I’d probably have a William Blake painting on the £fiver. why bother limiting it to a portrait of the notable figure?

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serious take: tbf church probably shouldn’t be on the 5er. he was bloodcrazed and loved war. his story has been so successfully buried in a swamp of braindead jingoism and ww2 nostalgia that it’s been mostly forgotten that his attitudes towards various people and cultures were just as blood curdling and evil as hitler’s. that isn’t hyperbolic, just a statement of troof. that leads to a whole other discussion about how violence and subjugation is endemic to the human animal, how colonialism and imperialism merely obliterated the violence of native cultures with our own more efficient bloodletting, etc. we see it all through history. it’s not that the khans or the romans or the british were necessarily more evil than yr average peoples, they just had better weapons, training, and coordination.

there’s also a discussion to be had about british imperialism and how we look at that in the context of nazism and what world war 2 means (the good war, the greatest war, etc). whether we like it or not church was a pivotal figure in 20th century history and stirred a nation to resist fascism (or a particular kind of fascism). i’ve no problem with him being on the 5 pound note if schools are willing to teach everything about him - the fanatical colonial mindset, the willingness to sacrifice the lives of the working class, etc - instead of the usual “bulldog spirit, fight them on the beaches” stuff. leave that in the lessons, sure, but don’t omit what a racist, cruel and calculating man he also was.

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yup

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we certainly never covered the empire any deeper beyond “oh, we had an empire and we used to run india” in school history, and my nephew and nieces don’t learn about, say, the bengali or irish genocides. if they’re covered at all the word “famine” is promoted heavily, as if they were acts of god. and churchill was purely discussed from a ww2 context; not once did we hear about how he actually thought about war and colonialism. i learned about the irish famine as a genocide purely because my granddad’s side of the family were directly affected by it. the teacher was very, uh, unimpressed when i asked him about it.

think schools offering a nuanced portrait of divisive figures can only be a good thing long term, but it’ll never happen because the second you bring up the empire, daily mail-type pressure groups start harassing schools they see as being “anti-british” or “unpatriotic”. so you get a really, really tepid take on the evils of what happened and most kids go through their lives totally unaware just how poisonous the british empire and churchill’s views were.

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He invented the catflap!

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true genius!

Nah.

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fuck off, mate.

“We proceeded systematically, village by village, and we destroyed the houses, filled up the wells, blew down the towers, cut down the great shady trees, burned the crops and broke the reservoirs in punitive devastation.” – Churchill on how the British carried on in Afghanistan

Churchill found his love for war during the time he spent in Afghanistan. While there he said “all who resist will be killed without quarter” because the Pashtuns need “recognise the superiority of race”.

Churchill’s hatred for Indians led to four million starving to death during the Bengal ‘famine’ of 1943. “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion” he would say.

Even right wing imperialist Leo Amery who was the British Secretary of State in India said he “didn’t see much difference between his [Churchill] outlook and Hitler’s”.

“I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against the uncivilized tribes… it would spread a lively terror.” – Churchill on the use of gas in the Middle East and India

Churchill believed that Kenya’s fertile highlands should be only for white colonial settlers. He approved the forcible removal of the local population, which he termed “blackamoors”.

150,000 men, women and children were forced into concentration camps. Children’s schools were shut by the British who branded them “training grounds for rebellion”. Rape, castration, cigarettes, electric shocks and fire all used by the British to torture the Kenyan people under Churchill’s watch.

He went on to also express to the Peel Commission that he does “not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place”.

Thousands were sent to British run concentration camps during the Boer wars. Churchill summed up his time in South Africa by saying “it was great fun galloping about”.

Churchill wrote that his only “irritation” during the Boer war was “that Kaffirs should be allowed to fire on white men”.

The Black and Tans were the brainchild of Churchill. He sent them to Ireland to terrorise at will. Attacking civilians and civilian property, rampaging across the country carrying out reprisals. He went on to describe them as “gallant and honourable officers”. “We have always found the Irish a bit odd. They refuse to be English.” – Churchill.

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Fucking disgusting and horrific? Yep. As bad as Hitler’s? Nope.

I’m not getting into a most evil man in history debate though. I agree with most of your points.

You missed out: responsible for the existence of Nicholas Soames.

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what he did wasn’t “as bad” but i never said that (tho could argue it). i said his attitude was as bad, which all that stuff demonstrates. he blatantly makes eugenicist/social darwinist arguments and appeals to racial exceptionalism.

at that level though what’s the point in making a distinction?

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I have learnt a lot here, had no idea about all this - cheers dudes!

What a prick!

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Bit harsh on b-~abandon reply~

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ohh yes

BEN AND GERRY’S

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Bertrand Russell on the fiver, he seems like a good egg. (Did he do anything wrong?)

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Diana on the fiver
Brian belo on the tenner
Keith Floyd on the twenty
Biggins on the big dog

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Rick Stein’s dead dog Chalky on the fiver.

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